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zima,
"So I'm not quite sure what 'government is not as clearly(??) a reflection of the public as you indicated'"
I meant exactly that, I'm still not sure what the issue is you are taking with my statement? If I misunderstood your view, then I apologize
"No, it is us. Also in who we collectively choose to promote to public positions, what traits we cherish there, in the end."
It still seems to me that you are assuming that corruption in government is purely a reflection of corruption in individuals, without considering that perhaps non-corrupt individuals face more challenges in politics than corrupt ones.
Keep in mind, a dishonest politician has all the maneuvers that an honest politician has, and then some. To the extent that he doesn't miscalculate the risks of his dishonest actions, he has more opportunities than the honest politician, all else being equal.
Edited 2011-09-04 19:07 UTC
I stress a complex web of interrelations in societal dynamics. "Govs reflecting their society" being just one of them (but not a bad one to point out specifically, with how wilfully overlooked and/or denied it is typically...), what else the emphasised, more than once, "also" could mean?
And who allows for such state of affairs? Heck, in moderately functional liberal democracies, who votes in those people? Why the society doesn't care to see enough through the dirty tricks? Why it is... so often wrong in promoting their new mythical honest idol?
Those are our failures.
(oh, and "all else being equal" could just as well mean firm, strict, equal for all enforcement of fair and sustainable rules, of the so called values humans typically declare to cherish...)





Member since:
2005-07-06
Well I wrote (original emphasis / italics maintained):
So I'm not quite sure what "government is not as clearly(??) a reflection of the public as you indicated" (emphasis mine) would mean - other than essentially retreating to the popular sentiments of avoiding basically any liability (mental/internal or otherwise) from how we are also very much responsible for the actions of our govs. Escaping to "us vs. them" ("they are the filthy, the guilty, the evil ones")
No, it is us. Also in who we collectively choose to promote to public positions, what traits we cherish there, in the end.