Linked by David Adams on Thu 29th Sep 2011 23:47 UTC, submitted by lucas_maximus
Linux Linux is struggling on the desktop because it only has a small number of "great" apps, according to the Gnome co-creator. Miguel de Icaza, co-creator of the Gnome desktop, told tech journalist Tim Anderson at the recent Windows 8 Build conference "When you count how many great desktop apps there are on Linux, you can probably name 10," de Icaza said, according to a post on Anderson's IT Writing blog. "You work really hard, you can probably name 20. We've managed to p*** off developers every step of the way, breaking APIs all the time."
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RE: Misleading article title
by ngaio on Fri 30th Sep 2011 00:29 UTC in reply to "Misleading article title"
ngaio
Member since:
2005-10-06

I'm not disputing what you're saying with respect to the complexity that comes with different options on the Linux desktop, but I do recall Miguel talking in the past about the need for Gnome to keep legacy APIs in place so that applications written years ago can still run without modification today. Perhaps his point was that Gnome is a moving target.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Misleading article title
by lemur2 on Fri 30th Sep 2011 01:30 in reply to "RE: Misleading article title"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I do recall Miguel talking in the past about the need for Gnome to keep legacy APIs in place so that applications written years ago can still run without modification today. Perhaps his point was that Gnome is a moving target.


I have some help for Miguel to find freedom software applications:

http://www.fsf.org/news/directory-relaunch

Free Software Foundation re-launches its Free Software Directory, with over 6500 programs listed

Unfrotunately, both Miguel and the Free Software Foundation tend very much to utterly ignore KDE and Qt applications, which are easily amongst the best free software desktop applications available today.

I can perhaps help there, too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_KDE_applications

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Software_that_uses_Qt

KDE also features platform abstraction layers such as Phonon and Solid, which effectively will allow applications written (or updated) in the past few years to still run without modification in many years time.

Miguel: "You work really hard, you can probably name 20. We've managed to p*** off developers every step of the way, breaking APIs all the time."

Hey Miguel, I can easily find hundreds of great free software desktop applications. I can even find a great sub-set of these applications (outside of GNOME) which work with an abstraction layer to avoid API breakage!

Enjoy!

Edited 2011-09-30 01:35 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

"I do recall Miguel talking in the past about the need for Gnome to keep legacy APIs in place so that applications written years ago can still run without modification today. Perhaps his point was that Gnome is a moving target.


I have some help for Miguel to find freedom software applications:

http://www.fsf.org/news/directory-relaunch

Free Software Foundation re-launches its Free Software Directory, with over 6500 programs listed

Unfrotunately, both Miguel and the Free Software Foundation tend very much to utterly ignore KDE and Qt applications, which are easily amongst the best free software desktop applications available today.

I can perhaps help there, too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_KDE_applications

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Software_that_uses_Qt

KDE also features platform abstraction layers such as Phonon and Solid, which effectively will allow applications written (or updated) in the past few years to still run without modification in many years time.

Miguel: "You work really hard, you can probably name 20. We've managed to p*** off developers every step of the way, breaking APIs all the time."

Hey Miguel, I can easily find hundreds of great free software desktop applications. I can even find a great sub-set of these applications (outside of GNOME) which work with an abstraction layer to avoid API breakage!

Enjoy!
"

I can't even name 5 good linux GUI applications.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[3]: KDE & QT
by ngaio on Fri 30th Sep 2011 01:48 in reply to "RE[2]: Misleading article title"
ngaio Member since:
2005-10-06

I like Quanta Plus. I've used it for many years. It has many strengths. It is no longer part of the KDE family. There is no replacement. Effectively its legs have been cut off from under it, and it's been taken to the graveyard to starve to death. Not cool.

Plus, please remember it's not about how many applications there are -- it's all about the quality. Miguel has very high standards. (Yet it must be noted he is extremely generous and welcoming towards code contributors).

Reply Parent Score: 2

Slambert666 Member since:
2008-10-30

Hey Miguel, I can easily find hundreds of great free software desktop applications.


Yes, linux has so many great applications that users are flocking to it in great numbers........

The truth of the matter is that there is a handful of half-assed applications that works some of the time and then you update you system and another set of half-assed apps works.

This is not a good situation and users do generally not have great patience with it. The most idealistic of users stay with the system for about 6 months then go :f**k it....

Linux developers needs to listen to Miguel a lot more because he is talking sense.

Step 1: Make it easy to program for Linux, using modern programming languages.

Step 2: Provide stable API's and ABI's so that programs will work for a long time without excessive maintenance.

Step 3: Test the programs before releasing.

It seems that everyone involved with free software has a Lisus Thorvalds in the stomach and wants to single-handedly f**k the system up.
Please stop that!

Reply Parent Score: 2

demetrioussharpe Member since:
2009-01-09


Hey Miguel, I can easily find hundreds of great free software desktop applications. I can even find a great sub-set of these applications (outside of GNOME) which work with an abstraction layer to avoid API breakage!


And yet, how many of these apps are truly great & how many are just repeatedly called great without actually being so?

Reply Parent Score: 2

Wafflez Member since:
2011-06-26

Personally, i know only one good Linux desktop program - Amarok 1.4
Amarok 2 and foobar are just crap compared to this masterpiece. ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

allanregistos Member since:
2011-02-10

"I do recall Miguel talking in the past about the need for Gnome to keep legacy APIs in place so that applications written years ago can still run without modification today. Perhaps his point was that Gnome is a moving target.


I have some help for Miguel to find freedom software applications:

http://www.fsf.org/news/directory-relaunch

Free Software Foundation re-launches its Free Software Directory, with over 6500 programs listed

Unfrotunately, both Miguel and the Free Software Foundation tend very much to utterly ignore KDE and Qt applications, which are easily amongst the best free software desktop applications available today.

I can perhaps help there, too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_KDE_applications

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Software_that_uses_Qt

KDE also features platform abstraction layers such as Phonon and Solid, which effectively will allow applications written (or updated) in the past few years to still run without modification in many years time.

Miguel: "You work really hard, you can probably name 20. We've managed to p*** off developers every step of the way, breaking APIs all the time."

Hey Miguel, I can easily find hundreds of great free software desktop applications. I can even find a great sub-set of these applications (outside of GNOME) which work with an abstraction layer to avoid API breakage!

Enjoy!
"

Please also consider the number of users of those existing applications in your DE(GNOME/KDE).

Reply Parent Score: 1

jyper Member since:
2011-10-03

Free Software Foundation re-launches its Free Software Directory, with over 6500 programs listed


I disagree with him but that is a very poor rebuttal(home many of those are good?). A better rebuttal would be to list specific good applications.

Edited 2011-10-03 09:42 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

With "software that uses Qt" we have there Gadu Gadu for example... NVM how it isn't open, it is also a ridiculously bad (and not on a technical level, oh no, it's smooth there and easily among best open ones; it's just bad, in "concept") application you have never used.

You throw around lists of stuff you hardly use, or don't bother to compare them with other tools. "It's under KDE or Qt banner, therefore it's good" doesn't work, a lot of it is sub-par (and the DE itself tends to get in the way of doing things for some time now; luckily, even if XFCE looks like it might go the same way, there's a rapidly maturing LXDE for example)

Reply Parent Score: 2