Linked by David Adams on Thu 29th Sep 2011 23:47 UTC, submitted by lucas_maximus
Linux Linux is struggling on the desktop because it only has a small number of "great" apps, according to the Gnome co-creator. Miguel de Icaza, co-creator of the Gnome desktop, told tech journalist Tim Anderson at the recent Windows 8 Build conference "When you count how many great desktop apps there are on Linux, you can probably name 10," de Icaza said, according to a post on Anderson's IT Writing blog. "You work really hard, you can probably name 20. We've managed to p*** off developers every step of the way, breaking APIs all the time."
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RE[3]: Misleading article title
by Slambert666 on Fri 30th Sep 2011 02:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Misleading article title"
Slambert666
Member since:
2008-10-30

Hey Miguel, I can easily find hundreds of great free software desktop applications.


Yes, linux has so many great applications that users are flocking to it in great numbers........

The truth of the matter is that there is a handful of half-assed applications that works some of the time and then you update you system and another set of half-assed apps works.

This is not a good situation and users do generally not have great patience with it. The most idealistic of users stay with the system for about 6 months then go :f**k it....

Linux developers needs to listen to Miguel a lot more because he is talking sense.

Step 1: Make it easy to program for Linux, using modern programming languages.

Step 2: Provide stable API's and ABI's so that programs will work for a long time without excessive maintenance.

Step 3: Test the programs before releasing.

It seems that everyone involved with free software has a Lisus Thorvalds in the stomach and wants to single-handedly f**k the system up.
Please stop that!

Reply Parent Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"Hey Miguel, I can easily find hundreds of great free software desktop applications.
Yes, linux has so many great applications that users are flocking to it in great numbers........ The truth of the matter is that there is a handful of half-assed applications that works some of the time and then you update you system and another set of half-assed apps works. This is not a good situation and users do generally not have great patience with it. The most idealistic of users stay with the system for about 6 months then go :f**k it.... "

Unsupported claims. You saying something does not make it so.

Linux developers needs to listen to Miguel a lot more because he is talking sense. Step 1: Make it easy to program for Linux, using modern programming languages. Step 2: Provide stable API's and ABI's so that programs will work for a long time without excessive maintenance. Step 3: Test the programs before releasing.


Freedom software doesn't require a stable ABI.

As for the rest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_Quick

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_Creator

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_%28programming_language~*~@...

It seems that everyone involved with free software has a Lisus Thorvalds in the stomach and wants to single-handedly f**k the system up. Please stop that!


WTF?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Misleading article title
by oinet on Fri 30th Sep 2011 07:13 in reply to "RE[4]: Misleading article title"
oinet Member since:
2010-03-23

Freedom software doesn't require a stable ABI.


1) Good thing then that Windows does or WINE users would be very sorry.
2) It better do, or I won't (ever) join the rebellion..
3) ..and neither will the dial-up world..

Reply Parent Score: 2

Slambert666 Member since:
2008-10-30

WTF?


Linus Thorvalds ....

Reply Parent Score: 1

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Good software does.

Developers do not like trying to hit a moving target. We like to deploy and forget one everything is working ... we don't like to fix thing when someone else has broken them.

If people need to then give us warning and depreciate accordingly.

Churn is good for nobody.

Edited 2011-09-30 21:32 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

Stephen! Member since:
2007-11-24

Yes, linux has so many great applications that users are flocking to it in great numbers........


Then again, it's not as if Apple really fares that much better, given the marketshare of OSX compared to Windows.

Edited 2011-09-30 10:14 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

CodeMonkey Member since:
2005-09-22

Step 1: Make it easy to program for Linux, using modern programming languages.


Last time I checked any programming language you can imagine usually gets Linux support first before anything else. As far as "modern" languages go:

C++11, Java7, Python3, Ruby19, Haskell, ..., etc.

If you're definition of "Modern" programming languages only consists of the latest and greatest iteration of C# then I guess I can see your point. But if you actually consider other modern languages then Linux definitely leads the pack in supported platforms.

Reply Parent Score: 7

Slambert666 Member since:
2008-10-30

C++11, Java7, Python3, Ruby19, Haskell, ..., etc.


On that list only C++ is useful for making desktop apps.

What about Step 2 and 3? you forgot about them.

Reply Parent Score: 1

TemporalBeing Member since:
2007-08-22

"Step 1: Make it easy to program for Linux, using modern programming languages.


Last time I checked any programming language you can imagine usually gets Linux support first before anything else. As far as "modern" languages go:

C++11, Java7, Python3, Ruby19, Haskell, ..., etc.

If you're definition of "Modern" programming languages only consists of the latest and greatest iteration of C# then I guess I can see your point. But if you actually consider other modern languages then Linux definitely leads the pack in supported platforms.
"

Just a slight correctino - if they considered a "Modern" programming language anything that comes from Microsoft (which would include C#) then I can concede point.

However, most "Modern" programming languages do not come from Microsoft, but from the other 99.999999999999% percent of the world.

Reply Parent Score: 3

allanregistos Member since:
2011-02-10

"Step 1: Make it easy to program for Linux, using modern programming languages.


Last time I checked any programming language you can imagine usually gets Linux support first before anything else. As far as "modern" languages go:

C++11, Java7, Python3, Ruby19, Haskell, ..., etc.

If you're definition of "Modern" programming languages only consists of the latest and greatest iteration of C# then I guess I can see your point. But if you actually consider other modern languages then Linux definitely leads the pack in supported platforms.
"

He might be thinking of a Visual Studio experience where almost everything were integrated. While I am not a developer in a sense of using Linux as my tools, I understand that Linux' dev tools are great, but not integrated. Ubuntu's quickly I think is an attempt to address this issue.

Reply Parent Score: 1

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Update breakage or lack there of tends to be a competitive attribute between distributions. What distribution are you using that breaks applications with each update and why haven't you considered using a better managed distribution?

Reply Parent Score: 1

twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11


Linux developers needs to listen to Miguel a lot more because he is talking sense.

Step 1: Make it easy to program for Linux, using modern programming languages.

Step 2: Provide stable API's and ABI's so that programs will work for a long time without excessive maintenance.

Step 3: Test the programs before releasing.



Step 4: Focus on a toolkit not 100, focus on a single graphics stack not 100, focus at a single app/app group. No need to reinvent the wheel 1000 times.

Step 5: Use some good programming languages. Python and Shell Scripting aren't for general software development, really. They are for frustrated foss enthusiasts too lazy/incapable to learn something actually good for desktop/system programming.

Step 6: Try to implement a good system architecture. I.e. ALSA is a mess, X11 is a mess, Pulse Audio is a mess, HAL is a mess, Init is a mess, CUPS is a mess, udev is a mess.

Step 7: If ain't good, don't release it. The world doesn't need yet another window manager, yet another text editor, and so on. The fact that you can apt-get or yum install everything from a central repository doesn't make for the fact of that repository being full of crapware.

Step 8: Optimize, make it work. Too much slowness, too many crashes.

Step 9: Stable API, Stable ABI.

Step 10: Stable API, Stable ABI.

....................................................

Step 1000: Stable API, Stable ABI.

Reply Parent Score: 1

WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Step 5: Use some good programming languages. Python and Shell Scripting aren't for general software development, really. They are for frustrated foss enthusiasts too lazy/incapable to learn something actually good for desktop/system programming.


Better yet, make your API/toolkit language-agnostic, so I can use whatever the hell I want to program in, and then compile down to a native executable, no matter what language I choose.

On Windows, my language of choice is actually AutoIt. It's probably got 1/10th the power of perl or python, but does everything I need it to do 95% of the time, and can generate small, native .exe files.

Edited 2011-10-01 02:19 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Step 4: Focus on a toolkit not 100


For all practicalpurposes there are only two: qt and gtk.

focus on a single graphics stack not 100


There aren't hundred graphics stacks.

Python and Shell Scripting aren't for general software development, really.


No? Way to show your ignorance. That's like saying VB.net is not a language for real development.

They are for frustrated foss enthusiasts too lazy/incapable to learn something actually good for desktop/system programming.


It's obvious that you've never used either and really, no-one is using shell as a desktop programming language. Python's just fine though.

If ain't good, don't release it.

Well, I guess it would be good to do something the commercial development houses do not.

Reply Parent Score: 5