Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 5th Oct 2011 20:36 UTC, submitted by zizban
BeOS & Derivatives Oh gosh, finally news that's got nothing to do with patents or smartphones or the comparing of male sexual organs. Haiku news! Michael Lotz has added preliminary support for WPA to Haiku, taking the first steps towards making the Haiku wireless stack a lot more useful.
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RE[3]: Comment by peteo
by Morgan on Thu 6th Oct 2011 08:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by peteo"
Morgan
Member since:
2005-06-29

Windows ships with every PC (so essensially "free")


It doesn't ship with every PC, even some major manufacturers like Dell and HP offer Linux preinstalled or even a bare hard drive, to save the cost of the license. And while the cost of the version of Windows bundled with the PC is absorbed in the sale price, the next major upgrade will be out of pocket.

Mac OS X is certainly nicer than Haiku


Well that's purely subjective. I absolutely love the OS X interface and all the cool little features under the hood. I feel exactly the same way about Haiku, and it's free. Granted OS X is pretty cheap these days, but it's also (officially) limited to Apple hardware so that's a negative.

and - let's face it - Haiku is NOT currently more useful than Linux on the desktop.


Again, that is subjective. While I've been enjoying what I've seen of Gnome 3.0 (now 3.2) as I get used to it on my netbook, I'm eagerly anticipating getting Haiku to properly boot on it. Right now I'm settling for a VM in full screen and it's working very well. But running it native will, for me, be a much more pleasant and useful experience than Linux has been, no matter the distro or DE.

I'm curious to know if you have had only limited experience with Haiku and the BeOS way of computing, or if you're an old hat going back to the R4.5 days like me. It really clicked with me back then, and to this day is still closer to my ideal interface and workflow than any other OS by far. I have my own ideas of how an interface should present itself to the user, and Haiku espouses a lot of those already.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by peteo
by No it isnt on Thu 6th Oct 2011 09:24 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by peteo"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Again, that is subjective. While I've been enjoying what I've seen of Gnome 3.0 (now 3.2) as I get used to it on my netbook, I'm eagerly anticipating getting Haiku to properly boot on it.


No, that's not subjective. Not properly booting, and then being without most of Linux's productivity tools while bringing almost nothing of its own, all make Haiku objectively less usable on the desktop than Linux.

Warm fuzzies isn't the most important aspect of usability. If it were, the Tamagotchi would be considered more usable than a Palm. In fact, warm fuzzies don't count at all, and although Haiku is more usable than a Tamagotchi, it's still mainly a toy OS.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by peteo
by Morgan on Thu 6th Oct 2011 10:15 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by peteo"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I think you misunderstood me. The definition of subjective in this context means on a per-user basis, i.e. what the subject (you or I) think about it. For some people, usability means a command line and nothing more. For others, a minimalist GUI like Ratpoison addresses their exact needs regarding productivity. Still others require the OS to practically read their minds and move the mouse for them before they would consider it productive and useful. And there's a huge spectrum in the middle of all of that, where I think the various mainstream Linux interfaces, Windows, and OSes like Haiku fall.

And you're right: For me right now Haiku is not usable at all on my netbook. But it runs just fine on my desktop, and for the vast majority of what I use a computer for it serves my needs quite well. I don't do everything in it of course, but that's the same for Linux and Windows too.

So I stand behind my use of the word "subjective" in this context; for me it's a very productive OS, alpha stage be damned, for you and others it may not be. That's exactly what makes it subjective.

One more thing, and this is not a personal attack but an observation: Your analogy is grossly flawed. You may as well be comparing a remote control car to a jumbo jet. A Tamagotchi is an acutely simple game, that will never be more than a game. A Palm device is a pocketable computer designed for productivity, that coincidentally is more than able to emulate that Tamagotchi game. Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to be intentionally slighting Haiku by calling it a toy, instead of correctly stating that it is an alpha-quality (read: buggy as hell) operating system. If Haiku were a "toy OS" as you stated, it wouldn't have any productivity functions at all.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by peteo
by peteo on Thu 6th Oct 2011 10:34 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by peteo"
peteo Member since:
2011-10-05

"It doesn't ship with every PC, even some major manufacturers like Dell and HP offer Linux preinstalled or even a bare hard driver."

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

"Mac OS X is certainly nicer than Haiku"
"Well that's purely subjective."

So?

"I'm curious to know if you have had only limited experience with Haiku and the BeOS way of computing, or if you're an old hat going back to the R4.5 days like me."


If had the intelligence to read my post, you would have read the fact I was a professional R5 user for years, and I've used Haiku more thoroughly than some of the developers.

Haiku is too little, too late.

Now move on.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by peteo
by Morgan on Thu 6th Oct 2011 10:45 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by peteo"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

"It doesn't ship with every PC, even some major manufacturers like Dell and HP offer Linux preinstalled or even a bare hard driver."

HAHAHAHAHAHA.


Are you implying that what I said isn't true? Or just a hysterical laughing fit for no reason? Either way, visit those manufacturers' websites and you will see several models with the option to preinstall Linux or FreeDOS.

"Mac OS X is certainly nicer than Haiku"
"Well that's purely subjective."

So?


So, not everyone feels the way you do and I wanted to point that out. In short: So?

"I'm curious to know if you have had only limited experience with Haiku and the BeOS way of computing, or if you're an old hat going back to the R4.5 days like me."

If had the intelligence to read my post, you would have read the fact I was a professional R5 user for years, and I've used Haiku more thoroughly than some of the developers.


Well in my defense the post I replied to said nothing of the sort. This was the entirety of your words in that post:

"Well, that's the problem. Windows ships with every PC (so essensially "free"), Mac OS X is certainly nicer than Haiku and - let's face it - Haiku is NOT currently more useful than Linux on the desktop."

All three points I addressed. It wasn't until after I posted that I scrolled up and saw your original post where you spoke of your experience. My sincerest apologies for any perceived slight.

Haiku is too little, too late.


I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, and that's fine. I don't, and just as you did, I expressed my opinion.

Now move on.


No thank you, I'm quite content to stay and discuss this with others. After all it is a Haiku article. Beyond this paragraph, I'm going to refrain from discussing the fact that you seem to be quite proud of your opinion yet you arrogantly insist that others keep their mouths shut about it. It's douchebaggery at its finest, in my opinion.

:)

Reply Parent Score: 3