Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 6th Oct 2011 00:02 UTC
Apple On its website, Apple has just confirmed that its co-founder and former CEO, Steve Jobs, has passed away at age 56. After bringing the company back from the brink of bankruptcy and turning it into one of the world's most succesful technology companies, Jobs lost the battle with pancreatic cancer.
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RE: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by sorpigal on Thu 6th Oct 2011 12:45 UTC in reply to "Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
sorpigal
Member since:
2005-11-02

I strongly disagree. Today is no different from yesterday. While those close to him probably don't want to hear anny negatives, they are also not obliged to (or likely to) troll comments on stories like this... at least not today. Proximity to death does not change facts or opinions. If he was an asshole while alive he's still an asshole.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by leech on Thu 6th Oct 2011 14:11 in reply to "RE: Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
leech Member since:
2006-01-10

I strongly disagree. Today is no different from yesterday. While those close to him probably don't want to hear anny negatives, they are also not obliged to (or likely to) troll comments on stories like this... at least not today. Proximity to death does not change facts or opinions. If he was an asshole while alive he's still an asshole.


I strongly agree with your disagreement! Hail Eris!

I've never understood how someone can be such an utter (enter expletive here) and yet when they go on to meet their maker, in whatever form that takes, suddenly their farts smell like the sex sweat of a super model. I really hope when I kick the bucket, that people will shout honestly how they felt about me, so I know which ones to haunt!

You think I was an asshole in life, wait 'til I have freaky ghost powers!

Reply Parent Score: 2

twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11


I strongly agree with your disagreement! Hail Eris!

I've never understood how someone can be such an utter (enter expletive here) and yet when they go on to meet their maker, in whatever form that takes, suddenly their farts smell like the sex sweat of a super model. I really hope when I kick the bucket, that people will shout honestly how they felt about me, so I know which ones to haunt!

You think I was an asshole in life, wait 'til I have freaky ghost powers!


Well Sir, I strongly agree with your agreement.

Reply Parent Score: 2

twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

I strongly disagree. Today is no different from yesterday. While those close to him probably don't want to hear anny negatives, they are also not obliged to (or likely to) troll comments on stories like this... at least not today. Proximity to death does not change facts or opinions. If he was an asshole while alive he's still an asshole.


Yes, indeed. And while I didn't like Jobs, this was regarding him as Apple's CEO because I din't like many things Apple as a company has done under his command. This however doesn't mean that the person, the human being Steve Jobs was an asshole. He might have been or he might have not.

Reply Parent Score: 2

sithlord2 Member since:
2009-04-02

I strongly disagree. Today is no different from yesterday. While those close to him probably don't want to hear anny negatives, they are also not obliged to (or likely to) troll comments on stories like this... at least not today. Proximity to death does not change facts or opinions. If he was an asshole while alive he's still an asshole.


The issue is, dead people can't defend themselves...

Reply Parent Score: 1

sorpigal Member since:
2005-11-02

He wasn't going to defend himself while alive, either, at least not here. So what's the difference? It's only in your head.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by Morgan on Fri 7th Oct 2011 10:05 in reply to "RE: Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I'm sure, like many other highly influential people before him, his legacy will go through waves of respect and derision throughout the years to come. I do agree he had a reputation as a harsh and difficult to like guy on a personal level, especially to those within his sphere of innovation and productivity. There are countless anecdotes regarding his temper and arrogance towards those who missed living up to his impossibly high standards.

But that doesn't change the fact that he was a brilliant and enlightened person as well. He saw the world in a way that most of us never will, and I personally can look beyond the tantrums and see that the better qualities greatly outweighed the bad ones.

In short, he was human therefore subject to flawed emotions and reactions, just like any of us. As I never knew him personally, I choose to remember the great works he accomplished, just as I do regarding past innovators and geniuses, assholes though they may have been on a personal level.

Reply Parent Score: 3

sorpigal Member since:
2005-11-02

I choose not to forget that past figures of importance were not perfect role models. I choose not to worship the dead. Call me weird, but I think there's harm in only remember the good stuff. I'm not going to tiptoe around his apparent flaws when talking about the man, nor should anyone be so obliged.

Reply Parent Score: 2

henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

I strongly disagree. Today is no different from yesterday.


It is to the Jobs family and friends. Or do you have no compassion?

While those close to him probably don't want to hear anny negatives, they are also not obliged to (or likely to) troll comments on stories like this...


Troll is a very subjective term. Care to define it? I think it cuts both ways - some could argue your mirror holds the image of a classic troll.

Proximity to death does not change facts or opinions.


Being a member of the human race, rather than an animal, pretty much does mean that most people - love or hate Jobs, have at least some decency and respect.

If he was an asshole while alive he's still an asshole.


Exactly. But being cruel for the sake of making yourself feel self important, well that speaks greater volumes. Lacking compassion and moral fibre, well.. maybe we'll laugh like this when you die - oh wait, you'll never have amounted to anything, so no one will know you are dead... shucks, well I'll laugh now just so that I don't accidentally miss your demise, you heartless bastard. Oh, and as the cap fits, I suggest you don't bump you giant asshat on the way out.

Reply Parent Score: 2

sorpigal Member since:
2005-11-02

"Today is no different from yesterday.
It is to the Jobs family and friends. "
Did you miss the part where I covered them later?

Or do you have no compassion?

I have compassion for them, not for comment posters (and readers) here, who have no connection.

Troll is a very subjective term. Care to define it?

Trolling in this case is used by analogy to the meaning from which the "internet troll" is derived:

3: a fisherman's lure that is used in trolling; "he used a
spinner as his troll"

So sayeth wordnet. I could have as easily said "Reading through the comments" or "perusing" or whatever and meant the same thing.

some could argue your mirror holds the image of a classic troll.

Wrong. Some could argue that people posting here saying bad things about Steve Jobs are trolls. While some could argue that I was trolling, in its modern internet-troll sense, some people would be very off base. I was objecting to censorship in the name of the principle of not speaking ill of the dead, a principle which I think is far more harmful than beneficial. If you wish call to objecting to a commonly-held practice on the grounds that it is asinine and unhelpful trolling, so be it. I didn't say anything designed to inflame comment, I simply stood up and registered the dissenting opinion when Thom posted his side. I think that it is fair to do so and that no further comment from either side is required. I understand why he took what action he did, and cannot say he was certainly wrong to do so, but lest it be thought that his stance met with unanimous approval I registered the opposing viewpoint for the record. That is all.

"Proximity to death does not change facts or opinions.
Being a member of the human race, rather than an animal, pretty much does mean that most people - love or hate Jobs, have at least some decency and respect. "
Sorry, I can't parse any sense out of that. What do animals have to do with this? Are you saying that most people love or hate jobs because we are human? Are you saying that most people have at least some decency and respect? What part of this do you think is disagreeing with me?

But being cruel for the sake of making yourself feel self important, well that speaks greater volumes.

In what place did I advocate being cruel for any reason? At what point was I cruel for any reason? If you could identify either case, can you show cause that it was for the purpose of "making myself feel self important"? You cannot, because I never did these things and my intent was not this and is not likely to have been mistaken for this by a reasonable observer.

In fact, what I objected to was the deletion of statements of fact and opinion which merely cast the deceased in a negative light. This is so far from what you're accusing me of advocating (and doing!) that I question whether you read what I wrote and whether you are acting according to some outside agenda. The severity of your reaction is hardly justified.

Lacking compassion and moral fibre, well.. maybe we'll laugh like this when you die - oh wait, you'll never have amounted to anything, so no one will know you are dead... shucks, well I'll laugh now just so that I don't accidentally miss your demise, you heartless bastard

Who's being needlessly cruel now? I never questioned anyone's compassion or moral fiber, neither did I say anything which should cause my own to come in to question. Facing uncomfortable truths head-on is the very substance of moral uprightness. I could be fairly accused of a lack of compassion by an impartial observer, but such an accusation, if fairly made, could be shown to be without basis by simple cross-examination. Since no one asked me to justify it I have not done so, nor do I care to justify myself to such an obviously biased person as yourself.

Oh, and as the cap fits, I suggest you don't bump you giant asshat on the way out.

I'm sure you're patting yourself on the back for this witticism, but it makes such little sense that I cannot even bring myself to be slightly amused.

I give you a rating of 4 out of 10 on my troll-o-meter. Good enough, but too obvious to be in any real danger of being mistaken for genuine. Better luck next time.

Reply Parent Score: 2