Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 5th Oct 2011 20:36 UTC, submitted by zizban
BeOS & Derivatives Oh gosh, finally news that's got nothing to do with patents or smartphones or the comparing of male sexual organs. Haiku news! Michael Lotz has added preliminary support for WPA to Haiku, taking the first steps towards making the Haiku wireless stack a lot more useful.
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RE[6]: Comment by peteo
by zima on Tue 11th Oct 2011 01:43 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by peteo"
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""It doesn't ship with every PC, even some major manufacturers like Dell and HP offer Linux preinstalled or even a bare hard driver."


Are you implying that what I said isn't true? Or just a hysterical laughing fit for no reason? Either way, visit those manufacturers' websites and you will see several models with the option to preinstall Linux or FreeDOS.

Oh come on. I'm from one of the places where such laptops were actually fairly popular, mostly due to economic reasons.

The purpose of FreeDOS was probably somewhere between smokescreen and formality, so that the machines with it won't greatly inflate "sold without OS" metrics, hence possibly exposing their major, serious manufacturer (HP...) to accusations of promoting piracy. You couldn't actually do on them anything a typical user would expect.

With Linux it was often even sadder... basically, it was rare to encounter something which would work as it "should" (not like anybody really tried, probably). The shipping distros often omitted important drivers (too often there simply were no good Linux drivers for some components in those "Linux machines"), I've seen cases where it wouldn't even bother trying to start X (not like it could); or "with Linux" being just a Knoppix liveDVD thrown into the box.

Virtually all of those machines ended up with pirated Windows.

You have probably noticed I'm using past tenses above - well, for some reason (better deals worked out between MS and OEMs? Very rapidly declining costs of HW, hence the possibility to mask OS license price, while still greatly lowering the overall price? Influence of trade organizations?) such deals virtually disappeared. They certainly don't show up on "best-seller lists" any more.

And yeah, now ponder how it influenced the long-time perceptions people could have about Linux...

""I'm curious to know if you have had only limited experience with Haiku and the BeOS way of computing, or if you're an old hat going back to the R4.5 days like me."

If had the intelligence to read my post, you would have read the fact I was a professional R5 user for years, and I've used Haiku more thoroughly than some of the developers."

Well in my defense the post I replied to said nothing of the sort. This was the entirety of your words in that post:

"Well, that's the problem. Windows ships with every PC (so essensially "free"), Mac OS X is certainly nicer than Haiku and - let's face it - Haiku is NOT currently more useful than Linux on the desktop."

All three points I addressed. It wasn't until after I posted that I scrolled up and saw your original post where you spoke of your experience. My sincerest apologies for any perceived slight.

Yup, keeping in mind other posts in the discussion (especially if they are... a grandparent post of the thread one decides to reply in) might be advisable, might even bring some curious or enlightening revelations - for example, here you say:
Haiku's lack of usability at this point is solely due to its alpha state; the goal is and always has been to be a full fledged and productive operating system.
at some point in their lives they were alpha quality and barely usable by the general public.
As for Haiku being "an end in itself" regarding its production state, again you're comparing an alpha state to fully released OSes.

It seems to clearly indicate that you consider Haiku to be lacking in usability vs. some other OSes, and that it being a productive operating system is only a goal at this point. Perhaps also that Haiku is "barely usable by the general public" (even if those exact words apply "merely" to an analogy meant to be illustrative of the current Haiku state, not to Haiku directly)

So... you certainly curiously adressed the "let's face it - Haiku is NOT currently more useful than Linux on the desktop." opinion. Essentially sort of repeating it later, few posts down?

(and I'm writing this as one of the few who have BeOS in some warm place in their hearts for a decade+ ...but come on, give me at least a browsing experience which doesn't lag behind what's available on "big three" platforms; it would be a good start, considering how it's one of the primary "daily usage" types now)

Edited 2011-10-11 01:58 UTC

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