Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 13th Oct 2011 21:33 UTC, submitted by mahmudinashar
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Ah, it's that time of the year again. We already had this up on the sidebar, but I figured we'd turn it into a proper front page item - mostly because I want to discuss the move by the Ubuntu team to no longer install GNOME 2 as the 'classic' desktop option - which pretty much ends any and all involvement for me with Ubuntu (KDE 4 here I come). There's more to this than just that, of course, so those of you who do like Unity still have enough reason to upgrade.
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RE[5]: @Thom
by lemur2 on Thu 13th Oct 2011 23:11 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: @Thom"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

"KDE SC 4.6.x or 4.7.x, which comes with the most recent Linux distributions, is perfectly stable and well performed. It is fast, slick and powerful. It is the most advanced desktop software platform available. What are YOU talking about?
Lay down the kool-aid please and be rational about this. Neither PC-BSD nor KDE4 in gentoo have been overwhelmingly solid. It is overall really nice but with annoying drawbacks. Applications launch slower than similar gtk+-apps, there are odd drawing artifacts when switching from one desktop to another, or opening/closening windows (this is possibly an issue with my ATI card and proprietary drivers), and the nepomuk-stuff keeps crashing and returns no useful information. This might be related to kde4.6 in gentoo rather than anything else, since the kde4.6 is only partially 4.6 and partially 4.4 (kdepim). KDE4 is slick and powerful, definitely. It is very sexy - but it is not fast, and it is resource hungry much more than Gnome 2.32. I don't know about Gnome 3 because I'll never use that. Gnome 3 was the reason why I changed my use flags to allow for a KDE-installation. KDE4 was the reason why I changed the use flags back. I'm not totally buying the stuff about "most advanced desktop software platform", but it is not entirely inaccurate. It is like a fantastic feast meal, but also undercooked. I'm looking very forward to KDE4 in another two years. It is very promising. "

I am being perfectly rational about this.

None of your reported performance or stability issues occur on any of the many KDE installations I have done, and I have done quite a few, over a wide range of Intel/Intel and AMD/ATI hardware.

If KDE4 itself were the issue, then it would be an issue for everyone, and I too would have seen such issues. You are ascribing to KDE4 issues which have nothing to do with KDE4. You are at least two years behind the curve.

I do have a highly recommended tip ... don't use proprietary drivers, especially for ATI cards.

If you prefer "close to the metal" distributions, then Arch Linux (with open source graphics drivers) is quite nice with KDE4.

Edited 2011-10-13 23:20 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: @Thom
by dragossh on Fri 14th Oct 2011 00:44 in reply to "RE[5]: @Thom"
dragossh Member since:
2008-12-16

None of your reported performance or stability issues occur on any of the many KDE installations I have done, and I have done quite a few, over a wide range of Intel/Intel and AMD/ATI hardware.

Go figure, your experience isn't the same as his.

If KDE4 itself were the issue, then it would be an issue for everyone, and I too would have seen such issues. You are ascribing to KDE4 issues which have nothing to do with KDE4. You are at least two years behind the curve.

Or maybe there are bugs in software that pop up with certain configurations and not with others. Maybe?

I do have a highly recommended tip ... don't use proprietary drivers, especially for ATI cards.

I've used Nouveau and KWin still slows down after a while. Actually, no, I'm lying. I'm also being paid by Microsoft to astroturf KDE4 threads in hopes it won't take over the desktop and diminish Windows' marketshare because it's so good.

Your KDE praise is getting tiring, really. We get it -- you like your DE of choice. Maybe others DON'T appreciate cluttered UIs, 1000 options to configure apps and a desktop environment that gets in your way all the time. Or maybe it doesn't work correctly with our hardware, and every new version is the one that supposedly fixes the problems. You don't have to convince everyone to switch to KDE to feel happy about your choice, you know..

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[7]: @Thom
by lemur2 on Fri 14th Oct 2011 01:53 in reply to "RE[6]: @Thom"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"None of your reported performance or stability issues occur on any of the many KDE installations I have done, and I have done quite a few, over a wide range of Intel/Intel and AMD/ATI hardware.
Go figure, your experience isn't the same as his.
If KDE4 itself were the issue, then it would be an issue for everyone, and I too would have seen such issues. You are ascribing to KDE4 issues which have nothing to do with KDE4. You are at least two years behind the curve.
Or maybe there are bugs in software that pop up with certain configurations and not with others. Maybe?
"

Maybe, but what has it (the fact that Gentoo and PC-BSD are borked) got to do with KDE4? Bugs which crop up only with certain configurations and not with others happen to all software, not the least with GNOME. Get real. Frankly, you sound like you are desperate to come up with something, anything, which you can irrationally hold against KDE4.

"I do have a highly recommended tip ... don't use proprietary drivers, especially for ATI cards.
I've used Nouveau and KWin still slows down after a while. Actually, no, I'm lying. I'm also being paid by Microsoft to astroturf KDE4 threads in hopes it won't take over the desktop and diminish Windows' marketshare because it's so good. Your KDE praise is getting tiring, really. We get it -- you like your DE of choice. Maybe others DON'T appreciate cluttered UIs, 1000 options to configure apps and a desktop environment that gets in your way all the time. Or maybe it doesn't work correctly with our hardware, and every new version is the one that supposedly fixes the problems. You don't have to convince everyone to switch to KDE to feel happy about your choice, you know.. "

If people don't like it then they don't like it, fine. No problem. BTW, the reason for having options is to let people set it up exactly how they like, so it DOESN'T get in their way. Unlike GNOME, KDE excels at this.

The only reason why I mention all these things is to raise a counterpoint to all the disparaging that goes on. The likes of Jason Bourne's comments, for example, claiming that there were no good KDE applications when he doesn't even know many of them that exist. Or claiming that people would be bothered by the occasional "k" in the name of an application, for that matter a name that they didn't even see on the menu. People should just try it for themselves, and decide for themselves.

Ill-informed naysayers who are desperate for people NOT to try it will happily post utter rubbish to forums such as this disparagining something which they know nothing about and haven't even tried themselves. It is their voices which need to have an opposing voice. It is dead easy to spread negative vibes and criticism, and it can be very effective at stopping people from trying something.

My concern is that people will listen to the naysayers and hence miss out on something that could be very good for them.

Edited 2011-10-14 02:05 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: @Thom
by flynn on Fri 14th Oct 2011 21:36 in reply to "RE[5]: @Thom"
flynn Member since:
2009-03-19

If you prefer "close to the metal" distributions, then Arch Linux (with open source graphics drivers) is quite nice with KDE4.

I have used KDE on Arch since 4.2 and finally gave up about a week ago.

I have fairly powerful hardware (a 3 gigahertz core 2 duo, 4 gigs ram, 9800 gtx video card), yet I had persistent random freezes in every version. The entire desktop would just freeze for 5-10 seconds during which I could do nothing. It would then eventually unfreeze and all the queued mouse events from my frustrated clicking around would fire simultaneously.

Dolphin would randomly fail mounting drives that a simple mount command was able to do successfully without a hitch.

I'm not sure what nepomuk is or what it's supposed to do, but all it did do was make my computer curl up in pain until I finally disabled it.

Recently, when I upgraded to the newest version on the next boot I literally did not recognize my desktop anymore. It decided that it will go into 'activities view' or something to that effect on boot up. I never used activities. Didn't even know they existed, but now they were being shoved down my throat.

I finally got fed up and wiped all traces of KDE from my system. I'm running a tiling window manager now and I'm much happier.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: @Thom
by jessesmith on Fri 14th Oct 2011 23:50 in reply to "RE[6]: @Thom"
jessesmith Member since:
2010-03-11

That's interesting. I just tried the Kubuntu live CD and KDE is very snappy. The machine has an old NVIDIA graphics card, 1GB of memory and a 2.5GHz processor. Even running from the CD everything is very responsive, menus and windows react right away. Of course loading new apps is a little slow because of the CD speed, but otherwise I'm very happy with it.

Different hardware and different distros will make a huge difference in performance, I guess.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: @Thom
by lemur2 on Sat 15th Oct 2011 08:44 in reply to "RE[6]: @Thom"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"If you prefer "close to the metal" distributions, then Arch Linux (with open source graphics drivers) is quite nice with KDE4.

I have used KDE on Arch since 4.2 and finally gave up about a week ago.

I have fairly powerful hardware (a 3 gigahertz core 2 duo, 4 gigs ram, 9800 gtx video card), yet I had persistent random freezes in every version. The entire desktop would just freeze for 5-10 seconds during which I could do nothing. It would then eventually unfreeze and all the queued mouse events from my frustrated clicking around would fire simultaneously.

Dolphin would randomly fail mounting drives that a simple mount command was able to do successfully without a hitch.

I'm not sure what nepomuk is or what it's supposed to do, but all it did do was make my computer curl up in pain until I finally disabled it.

Recently, when I upgraded to the newest version on the next boot I literally did not recognize my desktop anymore. It decided that it will go into 'activities view' or something to that effect on boot up. I never used activities. Didn't even know they existed, but now they were being shoved down my throat.

I finally got fed up and wiped all traces of KDE from my system. I'm running a tiling window manager now and I'm much happier.
"

If your underlying system works, KDE exhibits exactly none of the behaviour you mention. It is fast and responsive in and of itself, as long as the underlying system and drivers work properly.

Activities are not "forced down your throat" in any way. You can ignore activities entirely if you want to, there is absolutely nothing about activities that you must use.

Just to explain what activities are ... you might find the when you are browsing the internet you like your desktop set up one way, but when you are working on a document you like it set up another way. "Activities" simply let you save, and later reload, different setups of your desktop. You can have a setup for every purpose if you like. You can even have different setups (or activities) loaded on different virtual desktops. It is very powerful and flexible, and no other desktop software provides this power.

However, I say again, if you don't want to use this feature, you don't have to. You are not forced to use activities. Just use the one all-purpose desktop setup all the time, just as other desktops constrain you to.

Edited 2011-10-15 08:45 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4