Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 1st Nov 2011 21:31 UTC, submitted by Z_God
KDE Disappointed with KDE 4's performance and other shortcomings, Timothy Pearson continued KDE 3.5 development under the name Trinity. Today the first third major update of the Trinity Desktop Environment is released, providing an alternative upgrade path for KDE users who do not feel comfortable with KDE 4.
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What's going on?
by fepede on Tue 1st Nov 2011 22:08 UTC
fepede
Member since:
2005-11-14

What's going on with the Linux Desktop?

It seems that the last releases of the most important DEs in the Linux world (KDE and Gnome) had a lot of criticism. These includes Unity.

I have the impression that the majority of users don't like the new directions taken by those DE and are seeking for alternatives.

Unfortunately all the FLOSS alternatives provides a second class desktop experience (or, at least, this is what I feel) and people are moving to OSX and Windows.

I believe that those new DEs are putting a tomb stone on the Linux Desktop.

Reply Score: 3

RE: What's going on?
by evert on Tue 1st Nov 2011 22:12 in reply to "What's going on?"
evert Member since:
2005-07-06

Well,XFCE is doing fine. I know many people who switched to it, as I did at work. (Me uses Windows at home, Arch with XFCE at work.)

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: What's going on?
by cmost on Tue 1st Nov 2011 22:29 in reply to "What's going on?"
cmost Member since:
2006-07-16

It seems that the last releases of the most important DEs in the Linux world (KDE and Gnome) had a lot of criticism. These includes Unity.


If you're referring to recent DE releases (e.g., Gnome 3, KDE 4.7 and Unity) then I don't know where you've been getting your information. KDE 4.7 has for the most part received raving reviews. KDE 4 is all grown up and has been a welcomed refuge for many users fleeing Gnome 3 and Unity. While KDE 4 might have been a mess at its initial few releases (4.0 through 4.3) it has greatly matured over the past two years and is now a paragon of stability and usability. I suggest you give KDE 4.7 a serious look if you're seeking shelter from Gnome 3 and Unity, at least until these latter two DE's mature.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: What's going on?
by fepede on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 12:32 in reply to "RE: What's going on?"
fepede Member since:
2005-11-14

"It seems that the last releases of the most important DEs in the Linux world (KDE and Gnome) had a lot of criticism. These includes Unity.


If you're referring to recent DE releases (e.g., Gnome 3, KDE 4.7 and Unity) then I don't know where you've been getting your information.
"

It's not an information, it is an impression, and, you know, impressions are subjective.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: What's going on?
by k.g.stoyanov on Tue 1st Nov 2011 22:46 in reply to "What's going on?"
k.g.stoyanov Member since:
2005-07-12

Yes, i was kde user 4 years, after kde4 i switched to gnome, and after gnome3 now i use lxde..Lxde is great, i dont need fancy effects and inventions, i need something to start my laptop and to run the apps i use, nothing else..

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: What's going on?
by Hussein on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 04:52 in reply to "RE: What's going on?"
Hussein Member since:
2008-11-22

I use LXDE too, in fact I'm posting from Lubuntu. I switched to LXDE back in 2009 and never looked back.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: What's going on?
by zextra on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 23:03 in reply to "RE: What's going on?"
zextra Member since:
2011-10-14

Try OpenBox with tint2 panel. Forget LXDE.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: What's going on?
by testman on Tue 1st Nov 2011 23:49 in reply to "What's going on?"
testman Member since:
2007-10-15

I believe that those new DEs are putting a tomb stone on the Linux Desktop.

That dream died years ago.

Unfortunately all the FLOSS alternatives provides a second class desktop experience (or, at least, this is what I feel) and people are moving to OSX and Windows.

It's not that people are moving from Linux to Windows or Mac, it's that Linux never offered a compelling reason to move to it and stay.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: What's going on?
by kenji on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 00:01 in reply to "RE: What's going on?"
kenji Member since:
2009-04-08

It's not that people are moving from Linux to Windows or Mac, it's that Linux never offered a compelling reason to move to it and stay.

Your opinion only. Feel free to express it but understand that opinions are useless to anyone but the author.

I have been using linux and freeBSD for 8 years now so your statement contains no logic. Troll much?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: What's going on?
by Delgarde on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 01:19 in reply to "What's going on?"
Delgarde Member since:
2008-08-19

I have the impression that the majority of users don't like the new directions taken by those DE and are seeking for alternatives.


Maybe. Or it could just be that the unhappy people are a small but noisy minority. It's hard to say one way or another, since as usual, people make more of a fuss when they're unhappy than when everything is working fine.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: What's going on?
by noamsml on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 01:58 in reply to "RE: What's going on?"
noamsml Member since:
2005-07-09

If I can chip in my 2 cents, I'd call myself a pretty average Linux user. I used Linux with gnome 2 for about 7 years before gnome released v3. I used gnome 3 and unity for a bit and thought they had some good ideas. However, the usability failures and bugginess of both environments (Unity literally died on me twice for no apparent reason) ultimately drove me to a tiling window manager, and I believe my next computer will be a mac.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: What's going on?
by orestes on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 05:15 in reply to "What's going on?"
orestes Member since:
2005-07-06

People hear what they want to hear and then they echo it. Especially if some of those people are high profile like Linus. I don't actually believe the number of people who "hate" the new desktops is anywhere near as predominant as a casual glance at tech sites like this one and /. would have one believe.

I also think a lot of what you saw in the early days was kneejerk reaction to the initial attempts to use the new environment without learning to make it work for the user instead of against. That'll improve as they get more polished and features find their way back into the codebase.

Of course there are people out there who legitimately want to stay with the old way of doing things, like the Trinity folks, and are willing to put forth the effort to preserve it. I applaud those people for taking the initiative and wish them nothing but success in the future.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: What's going on?
by Gone fishing on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 06:52 in reply to "What's going on?"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

If there is a problem with the new Linux desktops Gnome 3, KDE 4+ and Unity, I feel it is because they are being ambitious and innovating rather than simply copying the Windows desktop.

These new desktop environments are released early lack polish and are incomplete and quirky. However, all of them either do or in the very near future will offer a complete and engaging user experience, even if there is some learning curve for users of older desktops. The old tree menus seem to be a thing of the past.

Personally I find KDE 4 difficult, I dislike the kicker menu and don’t like Lancelot much either – however, I suspect that most of this is my fault as I’ve never bothered to get my head around the activities system in KDE 4 – which I suspect is good. For my part I like Unity which is greatly improved in 11:10 and presumably will be more so in the next Ubuntu release, I find it easy to work with multiple desktops and as I tend to use only 5 or 6 apps so the doc works well for me. I friend of mine likes gnome 3 a lot and the multiple desktops system here look very promising and better than I can see in any other DE including Mac OSX or Windows. I don’t like the icons being so large but this will no doubt be adjustable shortly.

The changes to the DEs are innovation and the nature of open source means that the initial releases are unlikely to have the polish of OSX but if you are prepared to be a little tolerant and climb a little learning curve the DEs will be as good or better than proprietary ones, if they are not already – I prefer Unity to the Windows desktop now, as it has more features that I use and this will only increase.

Edited 2011-11-02 06:59 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: What's going on?
by lemur2 on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 10:22 in reply to "RE: What's going on?"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

These new desktop environments are released early lack polish and are incomplete and quirky. However, all of them either do or in the very near future will offer a complete and engaging user experience, even if there is some learning curve for users of older desktops. The old tree menus seem to be a thing of the past.


No. Wrong. The KDE4 desktop lacked polish and was incomplete and quirky back in 2008 when it was first released. It has put all that well behind it now, and is quite polished and easily THE most complete desktop of any.

The "old tree menus" are still there under the Kickoff menu. Just right-click on the menu icon, and select "classic" mode.

Personally I find KDE 4 difficult, I dislike the kicker menu and don’t like Lancelot much either


Lancelot is a lot like the "new" mode menu of XP, except easier.

http://www.coolnerds.com/XP/StartMenu/xpStartMenu.htm

http://lancelot.fomentgroup.org/images/screenshots/lancelot-main-wi...

Kicker classic mode is a lot like the "classic" tree menus of XP and KDE3.

If you have these opinions of KDE, do you also have them for XP? If not, then you have a clear double standard, I'm afraid.

however, I suspect that most of this is my fault as I’ve never bothered to get my head around the activities system in KDE 4 – which I suspect is good.


OK, a lot of people seem to have a similar comment. I'll try to explain without too many words.

On KDE's Plasma, everything you see on the desktop is implemented as a widget. This includes panels, the task bar, system tray, notifications, icons (representing either shortcuts, URLs or actual files), the wallpaper, folder views, and true widgets such as weather monitors. All of these are different types of widgets in Plasma.

As do most desktops, KDE4 lets you arrange these desktop elements however you like. You can change the wallpaper, change the size and placement of widgets (of all kinds), add quick-launch icons to the panel ... whatever. All pretty much standard. The thing is, KDE4 lets you "save" such a setup as a named "activity". You can save as many such "desktop arrangement definitions" as you like, under different names. Then later you can "load" a previously saved "desktop arrangement definition" (or activity, if you will) back on to any virtual desktop.


https://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/358560:kde-45-desktop-activiti...

KDE 4.5 brings to the table plenty of useful, functional, innovative features. One of those very features is the Desktop Activity. Although many scoffed at the idea (even tried to get the feature pulled), those same naysayers are (hopefully) glad their requests were not followed. Why? The KDE Desktop Activities feature is a great new desktop metaphor that takes the Linux desktop to new levels of organization.

Prior to Desktop Activities a user could have multiple desktops (thanks to the ever-present KDE pager). You could use one desktop for productivity, one for networking, one for graphics, one for fun, or whatever categories you needed. This was a great way to keep yourself organized. The KDE team saw something that no one else seemed to see — that the Pager idea could be greatly improved.

As it stood, the Linux pager could have particular windows associated with it, but when you added a particular Plasmoid (Desktop Widget) that widget would be found on every desktop. So, what if you could associate widgets with particular desktop activities? And then, what if you could associate particular windows (or even files) to a particular desktop activity? What if you could give your desktops truly separate identities? And what if each activity had multiple workspaces of its own?

That is exactly what Desktop Activities is all about. No more are you limited to moving windows to different workspaces and associating different wallpaper to different workspaces. Now, each workspace takes on an entire life of their own, making them a feat of organization and efficiency unheard of on the PC desktop, until KDE 4.5. Now the Linux desktop can enjoy a multi-dimensional, multi-faceted desktop environment that no other software has ever offered.


Very powerful. More flexible than any other desktop.

http://www.ghacks.net/2010/08/16/kde-desktop-activities-explained/

http://lifehacker.com/5668873/use-kde-activities-to-create-differen...

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/kdes-desktop-features-activities-widge...

You don't have to use this feature if you don't want to. If you do want to use it, it is only available with KDE4.

For my part I like Unity which is greatly improved in 11:10 and presumably will be more so in the next Ubuntu release, I find it easy to work with multiple desktops and as I tend to use only 5 or 6 apps so the doc works well for me. I friend of mine likes gnome 3 a lot and the multiple desktops system here look very promising and better than I can see in any other DE including Mac OSX or Windows. I don’t like the icons being so large but this will no doubt be adjustable shortly.


None of this is outside the scope of KDE. KDE can easily do all that for you.

The changes to the DEs are innovation and the nature of open source means that the initial releases are unlikely to have the polish of OSX but if you are prepared to be a little tolerant and climb a little learning curve the DEs will be as good or better than proprietary ones, if they are not already – I prefer Unity to the Windows desktop now, as it has more features that I use and this will only increase.


KDE is better than the OSX desktop. Unity has quite a way to to get anywhere near the OSX desktop.

Edited 2011-11-02 10:28 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: What's going on?
by historyb on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 23:30 in reply to "What's going on?"
historyb Member since:
2005-07-06

I can tell you I don't like the direction the New DE's are taking. I did like KDE and then 4 came along, at first it was awful and it's gotten better; but in the meantime I moved to Gnome and than Gnome make's this new DE and Ubuntu makes Unity. Both personally I do not care for and ended up in XFCE which I like a whole lot. The DE developers of Gnome should have stuck with a classic look imho.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: What's going on?
by OSGuy on Thu 3rd Nov 2011 09:28 in reply to "What's going on?"
OSGuy Member since:
2006-01-01

They've lost the plot, that's what's going on....

Edited 2011-11-03 09:28 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2