Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 1st Nov 2011 21:31 UTC, submitted by Z_God
KDE Disappointed with KDE 4's performance and other shortcomings, Timothy Pearson continued KDE 3.5 development under the name Trinity. Today the first third major update of the Trinity Desktop Environment is released, providing an alternative upgrade path for KDE users who do not feel comfortable with KDE 4.
Thread beginning with comment 495239
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE[2]: Strange
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 00:15 UTC in reply to "RE: Strange"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

My standards could just be higher. I'm a Windows 7 user, and therefore, tolerate zero lag when it comes to animations and UI effects, even on slow and old hardware. Even simple Atom netbooks run Aero blazing fast and lag-free.

That can't exactly be said for KDE4. Considering you don't use Windows 7, I think the most logical explanation is that your standards are lower.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Strange
by lemur2 on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 02:27 in reply to "RE[2]: Strange"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

My standards could just be higher. I'm a Windows 7 user, and therefore, tolerate zero lag when it comes to animations and UI effects, even on slow and old hardware. Even simple Atom netbooks run Aero blazing fast and lag-free. That can't exactly be said for KDE4. Considering you don't use Windows 7, I think the most logical explanation is that your standards are lower.


I run Windows 7 on the same hardware I run KDE4.

Even my very modest hardware (including several different netbooks) runs KDE4 blazing fast and lag-free. Faster than Windows 7 on the same hardware.

Really.

I too don't tolerate anything other than zero lag when it comes to animations and UI effects, even on slow and old hardware, so I tend to avoid Windows 7 unless I really have to use it.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: Strange
by Hiev on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 02:31 in reply to "RE[3]: Strange"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

Why don't you show us a video of you KDE installation running on low end hardware?, I mean, it is nice an dandy on words, but can you prove it?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Strange
by Neolander on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 06:57 in reply to "RE[2]: Strange"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Windows 7 + zero lag ? Well, guess you're just lucky.

It may be because I disable animations and thus am more sensitive to it (I want my menus and windows to show up when I ask, not a silly fade-in later), but I can certify that Windows 7 is still very much capable of lag under load. And by under load, I mean that even booting it and attempting to use the desktop once it shows up fails, like in the good old XP days.

Since using sleep/hibernation will be sort of mandatory in Windows 8, I guess Microsoft are aware of this problem.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Strange
by lucas_maximus on Thu 3rd Nov 2011 19:15 in reply to "RE[3]: Strange"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I don't get any ... but then again I don't run crap hardware (my hardware comes from 2007 ... 4 years ... mid range processor and graphics).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Strange
by wojtek on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 06:57 in reply to "RE[2]: Strange"
wojtek Member since:
2010-01-24

I have the same exact issue with the KDE compared to win7. The animations doesn't feel that smooth and number of times when things go blank/frees are way to great (notebook, i3 330M @ 2.13GHz, 4GB of ram, nvidia GeForce GT 330M)...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Strange
by RaisedFist on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 07:42 in reply to "RE[2]: Strange"
RaisedFist Member since:
2005-07-06

Thom, I read a lot of your comments and articles, but this one is just bullshit. I usualy use Openbox on my laptop (a Dell Vostro 1310, CPU Intel T5670 @ 1.8GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel Graphics) and I tried KDE4 just a few weeks ago.

Apart from the fact that I don't like too much eyecandy I can tell you I had no issues with the interface. No lag whatsoever in animations and graphics. There was no problem at all with compositing... so I can conclude that either you have a problem with KDE4 yourself or your hardware doesn't like it (sucks!)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Strange
by Laurence on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 12:48 in reply to "RE[3]: Strange"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Thom, I read a lot of your comments and articles, but this one is just bullshit. I usualy use Openbox on my laptop (a Dell Vostro 1310, CPU Intel T5670 @ 1.8GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel Graphics) and I tried KDE4 just a few weeks ago.

Apart from the fact that I don't like too much eyecandy I can tell you I had no issues with the interface. No lag whatsoever in animations and graphics. There was no problem at all with compositing... so I can conclude that either you have a problem with KDE4 yourself or your hardware doesn't like it (sucks!)


Seriously, why do you people keep posting bullshit anecdotal evidence about your own personal hardware. It's completely worthless data.

So many things will affect KDE4's performance:
* specific hardware (this is even more of an issue with pre-builds like laptops as the same graphics card can behave differently in one than it can in the other. Also I've noticed upgrading from HDD to SSD has made my compositing noticeably smoother - in spite of the upgrade not being directly related to graphics hardware)
* drivers (often there's more than one open source and closed binary - all of which behave differently on different hardware)
* what Linux distro you're running (some offer better performance out of the box than others on the same hardware)
* what KDE tweaks you're running (render method, composite quality vs speed, etc)
* what effects you've selected (some are more intensive than others)
* BIOS tweaks (if you know what you're doing, you can get some noticeable performance differences by just changing a few options in the BIOS)
* the amount of crap you're running at a time (self explanatory really)
* your output resolution
...and so on.

So all this shit about "it runs well on xyz" etc is completely meaningless.


Also, I believe the KDE team were using the same excuses as MS were for Vista's poor performance and stability: poor graphics drivers.
You can read into that statement whichever way you want ;)

Edited 2011-11-02 12:49 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Strange
by righard on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 13:14 in reply to "RE[3]: Strange"
righard Member since:
2007-12-26

Don't immediately write something of as bullshit just because it does not apply to you.

I have the same experience as Thom with regards to KDE 4.x Let me start by saying that want to love KDE. I install each minor version in order to see how it progresses. Always I hope it can become my mane DE.

That said on my old with a single core 1.8GHz cpu (don't know which one any more) 4GB RAM and a Nvidia GeForce GT240 KDE performance is very sluggish. Both with Nvidia's own drivers as Nouveau's, tested under both Arch and Kubuntu. Ditto for my girlfriends pc with about the same specs.

Now I bought a new pc --with the soul purpose of playing Deus Ex 3 ;) -- but I kept my old videocard. KDE performance became very good. I have nothing to complain in that department. But the stability of the system is still horrible, I mean Windows ME horrible. After a weak I could not bare it any more and installed Gnome 3 (...which I did not like so I installed Fluxbox ;) )

Again, I think, feature-wise, KDE is great and the people working on it are great to. I really like to use it. But it still doesn't work for me, if it works for you, great, I envy you. If it works for the majority of people (as it appears to do), even better! But don't write of people telling otherwise for telling bullshit, or blaming the hardware. This machine runs other DE (like Gnome 3), modern games and much more complex software without any problem.

And why, why would anybody tell bullshit(lie) about it, what is to gain?

Edited 2011-11-02 13:19 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Strange
by segedunum on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 11:41 in reply to "RE[2]: Strange"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

That can't exactly be said for KDE4. Considering you don't use Windows 7, I think the most logical explanation is that your standards are lower.

I also use Windows 7 and have used a version of KDE 4 lately, and while you can never any Linux/X etc. based system as really responsive, the difference is quite imperceptible. I also use Windows 7 and OS X on my Macbook, and the lag with OS X when you compare is really quite shocking. KDE and Linux is nowhere near that bad.

Sorry Thom, but you're going to have to measure this subjective lag otherwise I'm sensing double standards here.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Strange
by Flatland_Spider on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 12:35 in reply to "RE[2]: Strange"
Flatland_Spider Member since:
2006-09-01

Lemur2's video drivers are probably better in whatever distro Lemur2 is running,and by better, I mean better integrated and/or newer.

KDE4, Gnome3, and Unity all lean heavily on the video drivers, and the user experience is going to suffer if the drivers are subpar or don't integrate well.

KDE4 on Fedora 15 is pretty nice. Previously, it was painful, and I credit the new found niceness to the latest Nouveau driver and it's integration by the Fedora team.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Strange
by Damnshock on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 21:08 in reply to "RE[2]: Strange"
Damnshock Member since:
2006-09-15

Have you ever though of running another window manager within kde?

Compiz runes perfectly for example.

I love KDE but I must agree that kwin has TERRIBLE performance. I hope to see great improvements in 4.8 ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Strange
by lemur2 on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 22:16 in reply to "RE[3]: Strange"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Have you ever though of running another window manager within kde? Compiz runes perfectly for example. I love KDE but I must agree that kwin has TERRIBLE performance. I hope to see great improvements in 4.8 ;)


kwin (in and of itself) has fine performance. Not yet perfect, not absolutely optimal, but perfectly adequate. However, as far as I know, unlike compiz, kwin doesn't have any work-arounds for problems in the underlying graphics stack. If the graphics stack reports that it has support for a particular OpenGL feature, then kwin believes it and kwin will use the feature. If that feature does in fact work, as advertised, kwin runs fine. If the feature is broken or poorly performed in the underlying graphics stack, then kwin will uncover this underlying bug, and perform poorly itself as a result.

Reply Parent Score: 1