Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 1st Nov 2011 21:31 UTC, submitted by Z_God
KDE Disappointed with KDE 4's performance and other shortcomings, Timothy Pearson continued KDE 3.5 development under the name Trinity. Today the first third major update of the Trinity Desktop Environment is released, providing an alternative upgrade path for KDE users who do not feel comfortable with KDE 4.
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RE[2]: What's going on?
by lemur2 on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 10:22 UTC in reply to "RE: What's going on?"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

These new desktop environments are released early lack polish and are incomplete and quirky. However, all of them either do or in the very near future will offer a complete and engaging user experience, even if there is some learning curve for users of older desktops. The old tree menus seem to be a thing of the past.


No. Wrong. The KDE4 desktop lacked polish and was incomplete and quirky back in 2008 when it was first released. It has put all that well behind it now, and is quite polished and easily THE most complete desktop of any.

The "old tree menus" are still there under the Kickoff menu. Just right-click on the menu icon, and select "classic" mode.

Personally I find KDE 4 difficult, I dislike the kicker menu and don’t like Lancelot much either


Lancelot is a lot like the "new" mode menu of XP, except easier.

http://www.coolnerds.com/XP/StartMenu/xpStartMenu.htm

http://lancelot.fomentgroup.org/images/screenshots/lancelot-main-wi...

Kicker classic mode is a lot like the "classic" tree menus of XP and KDE3.

If you have these opinions of KDE, do you also have them for XP? If not, then you have a clear double standard, I'm afraid.

however, I suspect that most of this is my fault as I’ve never bothered to get my head around the activities system in KDE 4 – which I suspect is good.


OK, a lot of people seem to have a similar comment. I'll try to explain without too many words.

On KDE's Plasma, everything you see on the desktop is implemented as a widget. This includes panels, the task bar, system tray, notifications, icons (representing either shortcuts, URLs or actual files), the wallpaper, folder views, and true widgets such as weather monitors. All of these are different types of widgets in Plasma.

As do most desktops, KDE4 lets you arrange these desktop elements however you like. You can change the wallpaper, change the size and placement of widgets (of all kinds), add quick-launch icons to the panel ... whatever. All pretty much standard. The thing is, KDE4 lets you "save" such a setup as a named "activity". You can save as many such "desktop arrangement definitions" as you like, under different names. Then later you can "load" a previously saved "desktop arrangement definition" (or activity, if you will) back on to any virtual desktop.


https://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/358560:kde-45-desktop-activiti...

KDE 4.5 brings to the table plenty of useful, functional, innovative features. One of those very features is the Desktop Activity. Although many scoffed at the idea (even tried to get the feature pulled), those same naysayers are (hopefully) glad their requests were not followed. Why? The KDE Desktop Activities feature is a great new desktop metaphor that takes the Linux desktop to new levels of organization.

Prior to Desktop Activities a user could have multiple desktops (thanks to the ever-present KDE pager). You could use one desktop for productivity, one for networking, one for graphics, one for fun, or whatever categories you needed. This was a great way to keep yourself organized. The KDE team saw something that no one else seemed to see — that the Pager idea could be greatly improved.

As it stood, the Linux pager could have particular windows associated with it, but when you added a particular Plasmoid (Desktop Widget) that widget would be found on every desktop. So, what if you could associate widgets with particular desktop activities? And then, what if you could associate particular windows (or even files) to a particular desktop activity? What if you could give your desktops truly separate identities? And what if each activity had multiple workspaces of its own?

That is exactly what Desktop Activities is all about. No more are you limited to moving windows to different workspaces and associating different wallpaper to different workspaces. Now, each workspace takes on an entire life of their own, making them a feat of organization and efficiency unheard of on the PC desktop, until KDE 4.5. Now the Linux desktop can enjoy a multi-dimensional, multi-faceted desktop environment that no other software has ever offered.


Very powerful. More flexible than any other desktop.

http://www.ghacks.net/2010/08/16/kde-desktop-activities-explained/

http://lifehacker.com/5668873/use-kde-activities-to-create-differen...

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/kdes-desktop-features-activities-widge...

You don't have to use this feature if you don't want to. If you do want to use it, it is only available with KDE4.

For my part I like Unity which is greatly improved in 11:10 and presumably will be more so in the next Ubuntu release, I find it easy to work with multiple desktops and as I tend to use only 5 or 6 apps so the doc works well for me. I friend of mine likes gnome 3 a lot and the multiple desktops system here look very promising and better than I can see in any other DE including Mac OSX or Windows. I don’t like the icons being so large but this will no doubt be adjustable shortly.


None of this is outside the scope of KDE. KDE can easily do all that for you.

The changes to the DEs are innovation and the nature of open source means that the initial releases are unlikely to have the polish of OSX but if you are prepared to be a little tolerant and climb a little learning curve the DEs will be as good or better than proprietary ones, if they are not already – I prefer Unity to the Windows desktop now, as it has more features that I use and this will only increase.


KDE is better than the OSX desktop. Unity has quite a way to to get anywhere near the OSX desktop.

Edited 2011-11-02 10:28 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: What's going on?
by BallmerKnowsBest on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 12:10 in reply to "RE[2]: What's going on?"
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

KDE is better than the OSX desktop. Unity has quite a way to to get anywhere near the OSX desktop.


So... are you the official KDE "Minister of Information" now?

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[3]: What's going on?
by Gone fishing on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 14:12 in reply to "RE[2]: What's going on?"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

Lemur2 I always enjoy reading your comments – even – especially when they are robust, however you write

No. Wrong. The KDE4 desktop lacked polish and was incomplete and quirky back in 2008 when it was first released. It has put all that well behind it now, and is quite polished and easily THE most complete desktop of any.


But I wrote

These new desktop environments are released early lack polish and are incomplete and quirky. However, all of them either do or in the very near future will offer a complete and engaging user experience, even if there is some learning curve for users of older desktops. The old tree menus seem to be a thing of the past.


Which is true of KDE when it was released it was incomplete and quirky and it now offers a complete and engaging user experience.

I am sure much of what you say about KDE is true, I'm sure the activities thing is a very powerful tool and it is my fault that I haven't spent more time working out how to use it. - I don't like the kicker menu and that is what we are intended to use not the classic menu but that a minor niggle. I suspect the reason that I don’t like KDE is more to do with a dislike of Kubuntu over Ubuntu and the fact that I find Opensuse a little bloated and unresponsive. I don’t have the time at the moment to set up another OS and learn to use it, but it’s not out of the question in the near future.

Like I said

if you are prepared to be a little tolerant and climb a little learning curve the DEs will be as good or better than proprietary ones.


Your point is that KDE is already better than a proprietary desktop and I have no issues with that – my point is that shortly we are likely to have at least 3 DEs that are better than a proprietary desktops and a little patience and tolerance wouldn’t be a bad thing.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: What's going on?
by Gone fishing on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 18:13 in reply to "RE[2]: What's going on?"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

Sorry I missed

If you have these opinions of KDE, do you also have them for XP? If not, then you have a clear double standard, I'm afraid.


Firstly I don't see XP as the gold standard of user interfaces - I think its dated and poor by the standards of today. However, XP does have a programs menu as a break out tree which I find quite usable. KDEs Kicker, I find more like Vista and Windows 7 and equally horrible.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: What's going on?
by lemur2 on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 22:33 in reply to "RE[3]: What's going on?"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Sorry I missed "If you have these opinions of KDE, do you also have them for XP? If not, then you have a clear double standard, I'm afraid.
Firstly I don't see XP as the gold standard of user interfaces - I think its dated and poor by the standards of today. However, XP does have a programs menu as a break out tree which I find quite usable. KDEs Kicker, I find more like Vista and Windows 7 and equally horrible. "

KDE4 doesn't run kicker. Kicker is the menu from KDE3, which is a tree menu.

KDE4 runs Kickoff, which has two distinct modes. The default mode is, I find also, not very good, but Kickoff also has a "classic" mode which is exactly like the "tree" which you yourself claim you find quite useable. If you find it useable for XP, why wouldn't it be useable for KDE?

Furthermore, there is the issue of the names visible on sub-levels of the tree. In KDE4, the first sub-level is the application category ... which is groups like Internet, Graphics, Office, Games, Utilities and System. On XP, this level is the name of the vendor, so that you have to know that Adobe is the author of Acrobat Reader. Back on KDE then next level below the category is the application description, so the PDF viewer would be listed as "document viewer" on the menu, with additional information being the name of the program, which happens to be "Okular". On XP, this level is the application name, so you have to know that Acrobat Reader is Adobe's PDF viewer application.

So, I ask you once again, why do you hold this apparent double standard, when the KDE menus are actually easier to use?

PS: Lancelot also has several modes. By default is has two columns, so when it opens you see a "favourites" column (which contains whatever you set), and the applications category column.

Applications category opening menu:
http://lancelot.fomentgroup.org/images/screenshots/lancelot-main-wi...

Computer category opening menu:
http://lancelot.fomentgroup.org/images/screenshots/lancelot-main-wi...

When you click on an entry in the right-hand column, that colum slides across to the left, and the next lower level of the menu appears in the right-hand column.

If you wish you can change this behaviour so that Lancelot uses more than two columns.

Edited 2011-11-02 22:44 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3