Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 1st Nov 2011 21:31 UTC, submitted by Z_God
KDE Disappointed with KDE 4's performance and other shortcomings, Timothy Pearson continued KDE 3.5 development under the name Trinity. Today the first third major update of the Trinity Desktop Environment is released, providing an alternative upgrade path for KDE users who do not feel comfortable with KDE 4.
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RE[4]: What's going on?
by lemur2 on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 22:33 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: What's going on?"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

Sorry I missed "If you have these opinions of KDE, do you also have them for XP? If not, then you have a clear double standard, I'm afraid.
Firstly I don't see XP as the gold standard of user interfaces - I think its dated and poor by the standards of today. However, XP does have a programs menu as a break out tree which I find quite usable. KDEs Kicker, I find more like Vista and Windows 7 and equally horrible. "

KDE4 doesn't run kicker. Kicker is the menu from KDE3, which is a tree menu.

KDE4 runs Kickoff, which has two distinct modes. The default mode is, I find also, not very good, but Kickoff also has a "classic" mode which is exactly like the "tree" which you yourself claim you find quite useable. If you find it useable for XP, why wouldn't it be useable for KDE?

Furthermore, there is the issue of the names visible on sub-levels of the tree. In KDE4, the first sub-level is the application category ... which is groups like Internet, Graphics, Office, Games, Utilities and System. On XP, this level is the name of the vendor, so that you have to know that Adobe is the author of Acrobat Reader. Back on KDE then next level below the category is the application description, so the PDF viewer would be listed as "document viewer" on the menu, with additional information being the name of the program, which happens to be "Okular". On XP, this level is the application name, so you have to know that Acrobat Reader is Adobe's PDF viewer application.

So, I ask you once again, why do you hold this apparent double standard, when the KDE menus are actually easier to use?

PS: Lancelot also has several modes. By default is has two columns, so when it opens you see a "favourites" column (which contains whatever you set), and the applications category column.

Applications category opening menu:
http://lancelot.fomentgroup.org/images/screenshots/lancelot-main-wi...

Computer category opening menu:
http://lancelot.fomentgroup.org/images/screenshots/lancelot-main-wi...

When you click on an entry in the right-hand column, that colum slides across to the left, and the next lower level of the menu appears in the right-hand column.

If you wish you can change this behaviour so that Lancelot uses more than two columns.

Edited 2011-11-02 22:44 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: What's going on?
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 22:37 in reply to "RE[4]: What's going on?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

So, I ask you once again, why do you hold this apparent double standard, when the KDE menus are actually easier to use?


"Easier to use" cannot possibly be a factual statement. Please don't present it as such - it dilutes the discussion.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[6]: What's going on?
by lemur2 on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 22:48 in reply to "RE[5]: What's going on?"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"So, I ask you once again, why do you hold this apparent double standard, when the KDE menus are actually easier to use?
"Easier to use" cannot possibly be a factual statement. Please don't present it as such - it dilutes the discussion. "

I can't think of anyone, objectively, who would claim with a straight face that finding the PDF viewer application under menu entries:

Start => All Programs => Adobe => Acrobat Reader

... is somehow "easier" than finding it under

Start => Office => Document viewer (Okular)

Seriously, Thom, get off your high horse.

Edited 2011-11-02 22:49 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: What's going on?
by Gone fishing on Thu 3rd Nov 2011 05:22 in reply to "RE[4]: What's going on?"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

So, I ask you once again, why do you hold this apparent double standard, when the KDE menus are actually easier to use?


Sorry the kick off menu - I don't I think a traditional break out tree such as in BeOS, RISCOS etc is easier than the menu implementation in KDE or Vista or Windows 7. XP is somewhere between the two - an I'm not going to argue XP is how it should be, personally I'd prefer Gnome 3 for example - Oh and I don't think we should stick with that either - innovation is good.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: What's going on?
by lemur2 on Thu 3rd Nov 2011 05:54 in reply to "RE[5]: What's going on?"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"So, I ask you once again, why do you hold this apparent double standard, when the KDE menus are actually easier to use?
Sorry the kick off menu - I don't I think a traditional break out tree such as in BeOS, RISCOS etc is easier than the menu implementation in KDE or Vista or Windows 7. XP is somewhere between the two - an I'm not going to argue XP is how it should be, personally I'd prefer Gnome 3 for example - Oh and I don't think we should stick with that either - innovation is good. "

meh.

With Lancelot, there is an option to have the different main menu categories (which are: computer, applications, documents and contacts) appear in the panel as separate, distinct "Start" buttons.

Form there, as I said before:

"Applications category opening menu:
http://lancelot.fomentgroup.org/images/screenshots/lancelot-main-wi.....

Computer category opening menu:
http://lancelot.fomentgroup.org/images/screenshots/lancelot-main-wi.....

When you click on an entry in the right-hand column, that colum slides across to the left, and the next lower level of the menu appears in the right-hand column.

If you wish you can change this behaviour so that Lancelot uses more than two columns."


This means that with Lancelot options selected the right way, you can click on the "Applications Start" menu button in the panel, then click on say the "Office" category in the right hand column. A new column showing the Office applications will appear on the right, depending on the way you like it, either as a third column or the existing right column will slide to the left. Either way, you can then click on the desired program, for example on the "document viewer (Okular)" program.

Three clicks in all. Start Applications Menu => Office => Document viewer (Okular).

This is in effect the equivalent of the GNOME 2.x separated menus, which has three separate menu starters for: Applications, Places and System.

Like so:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gnome2.30.0.png

I can't think of any GUI menu system with as many available programs which can be as clear, as easy to use, and yet require less clicks (or other interaction). You can probably equal this, but it would be hard to beat IMO.

I certainly can't see how this is any better:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gnome_3.2_shell.png

or this, for that matter:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Customize-the-Start-men...

Edited 2011-11-03 06:03 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1