Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 3rd Nov 2011 19:34 UTC, submitted by lucas_maximus
Hardware, Embedded Systems A big issue right now in the world of operating systems - especially Linux - is Microsoft's requirement that all Windows 8 machines ship with UEFI's secure boot enabled, with no requirement that OEMs implement it so users can turn it off. This has caused some concern in the Linux world, and considering Microsoft's past and current business practices and the incompetence of OEMs, that's not unwarranted. CNet's Ed Bott decided to pose the issue to OEMs. Dell stated is has plans to include the option to turn secure boot off, while HP was a bit more vague about the issue.
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lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

I think it comes down to that you don't want to pay money for stuff and you are cheap.


I think it comes down to that you want me to pay money to Microsoft even though I don't use their stuff.

In what possible universe is it sensible to pay twice as much as one has to, for any reason whatsoever? This question is especially pertinent when the better hardware/software combination is the one that is half the price.

Under what strange morailty is it a bad thing if people collaborate together to make a less expensive alternative available to everybody?

In what possible way is it a good thing for the Australian people, Australian business and the Australian economy to have a half-price alternative option to Microsoft made unavailable to them?

Do you have shares in Microsoft?

Edited 2011-11-04 01:06 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

BushLin Member since:
2011-01-26

While I wouldn't disagree that a lack of available computers which come without Windows could be infuriating if you'll never use it... I very much doubt it's doubling the cost, especially when you're talking about products like netbooks.

I would hazard a guess that the prices for Windows you've quoted are the price for a single user licence that is way more expensive (and less restrictive) than the bulk OEM licences which are sold with PCs.

However, it's still a sham.

Reply Parent Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

While I wouldn't disagree that a lack of available computers which come without Windows could be infuriating if you'll never use it... I very much doubt it's doubling the cost, especially when you're talking about products like netbooks. I would hazard a guess that the prices for Windows you've quoted are the price for a single user licence that is way more expensive (and less restrictive) than the bulk OEM licences which are sold with PCs. However, it's still a sham.


I only claimed a doubling in cost for low-end machines when one included MS Office to provide the equivalent functionality as offered with Ubuntu.

But it doesn't occur just for low-end desktop machines:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2122028/hp-launches-arm-bl...

HP launches ARM-based blade servers with Linux support
No Wintel here


I would assume there is no Windows option because the servers in question have up to 2,800 processors.

"HP's Redstone servers pack four ARM-processor laden drawers into just 4U of space. The firm claims a total rack capacity of 2,800 processors. HP claims significant improvements in power usage and server density, though customers will want to see how the ARM-based chips handle their particular workloads before throwing out existing x86 kit.

HP announced that it is working with Linux vendors such as Canonical and Red Hat to provide software support for its developmental server range. Worryingly for Microsoft, Linux might steal a march over its Windows Server operating system in the ARM server market."


You bet your bottom dollar that Linux might steal a march over Windows Server if people have to factor in the cost of 2,800 Windows Server licenses plus CALs.

The pleasing thing about efforts like this is that there are certainly still machines being made which boot Linux.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coreboot

We might even, with a modicum of luck, finally begin to see Linux/ARM offered for desktop, laptop and netbook class machines (not just tablets).

No Wintel there, either.

To me, this would be the ultimate solution to the UEFI secure boot ploy.

Edited 2011-11-04 02:08 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I already told you Lemur ...

No I don't have shares in Microsoft, Steve Ballmer pays me in Hookers and Coke. Me and Bill Gates hang around smoking Cubans in his mansion.

Linus comes round and says "those idiots still believe in this DESKTOP LINUX thing ... " and we all have a good chuckle about it ...

http://www.tmrepository.com/trademarks/paidmicrosoftshill

Reply Parent Score: 2

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

In what possible universe is it sensible to pay twice as much as one has to, for any reason whatsoever? This question is especially pertinent when the better hardware/software combination is the one that is half the price.


Better software? You honestly think that Linux is better software than Windows? In what world?

There are people that don't patch their Linux systems because they are afraid it will fall over.

People have problems with it all the time ... and I haven't seen much of an improvement in 10 years ... while Windows and OSX have become very nice polished products.

I won't get onto OSS(4) vs ALSA ...

Under what strange morailty is it a bad thing if people collaborate together to make a less expensive alternative available to everybody?


When it doesn't work.

It also devalues Software Engineering as a profession.

There is also no incentive for Quality and Polish. XFCE can look nice but it looks like the default theme is nicked from Redhat 9 and looks throughly out of date

Also Endless churn of rewriting stuff from "scratch" ... it has hurt the reputation of the KDE project and the Gnome Project, ... Pulse Audio etc.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html

Releasing stuff when it isn't ready ... and the product is out of beta ... i.e. Unity.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

You honestly think that Linux is better software than Windows?


I sure do, in many cases. I also think OpenBSD is much superior to Windows.

It also devalues Software Engineering as a profession.


You don't need FOSS for this, it's already done most thoroughly by commercial closed-source developers.
Ever wondered why "enterprisey" become a derogatory term? Sure wasn't due to FOSS software.

Releasing stuff when it isn't ready ... and the product is out of beta


Aka, 95% of commercial software out there. Hype your product, get it out there before it's finished and then release endless updates (or "point-releases" as some braindead companies call them). This is especially true for games.
No, you don't need FOSS to devalue the practice of software engineering.
Not saying that all FOSS software is the pinnacle of engineering but blaming it for devaluing software engineering as a profession is wrong.

Reply Parent Score: 4