Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 10th Nov 2011 20:45 UTC, submitted by Straylight
Oracle and SUN I just emerged, blinking, from the world of Skyrim, only to realise Sun Oracle has released the 11th version of Solaris (well, technically it's the 7th, but okay, we'll roll with it). I'll be honest and upfront about it: Solaris is totally out of my league, and as such, it's very hard for me to properly summarise what this release is all about, so I won't even try.
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RE[4]: Cloudwashing
by tony on Fri 11th Nov 2011 19:12 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Cloudwashing"
tony
Member since:
2005-07-06

"Eh, most of those aren't really that interesting. Zoning/Containers have been around for a while, haven't seen that great of a use case. Virtualization on a Type 1 hypervisor has proven much more useful in a general sense. Boot environments are neat, but it's only in Solaris, so not of any use to me. Not a feature that's going to get me to drop Linux.

It is not interesting because you dont know about this stuff. Other people are excited.
"

Oh, I know about that stuff. I just don't care.



For instance, DTrace is unique and there has not been any tech like that before earlier. Linux devs have even switched to Solaris just to get DTrace. That is why IBM is copying DTrace and calling it ProbeVue. FreeBSD and Mac OS X has ported DTrace. Linux is copying it, but Systemtap is a very bad and unstable copy, according to DTrace experts.


It's a nice feature, don't get me wrong. But the worse part about DTrace has always been Sun, and now it's Oracle. Solaris isn't widely deployed, is getting less widely deployed, and it's been off the widely deployed radar for about 10 years now. DTrace isn't enough (for me, and for most people) to switch.


ZFS protects your data on disk, against data corruption. No Linux filesystem does this. Your data might be corrupted, and Linux will not even notice it. This is proven by comp sci researchers. You want to read their research on this?


Again, I know all about ZFS. I love it, but like DTrace, the worst part about ZFS was Sun and now Oracle. Sun was terribly run, and Oracle is just... has left a very bad taste in my mouth.



Boot Environments is a killer feature. If you patch your Linux installation, and something breaks, what do you do? Reinstall everything? With ZFS BE I just reboot into GRUB and choose an earlier functioning snapshot. Almost zero downtime. I have often done weird stuff while learning Solaris, and broke something. Instead of reinstalling everything, I just reboot and kill the latest snapshot which broke my install. This takes a couple of seconds, and I am back to a real functioning state. Killer feature.


A real effort has been made in the last few years to move away from being OS dependent. To keep the apps and data separated from the OS, or to use virtualization technology (like snapshots) to obviate issues like that. Nice feature, but eh, not enough to switch.


Containers are really really neat. Lot of sys admins are excited about this. If you use VMware and start up several OS instances, then each guest OS will use 4GB RAM, and CPU, etc. With Containers, each guest will use 40MB and nil CPU. One guy booted 1.000 Containers on a server with 1GB RAM, it was extremely slow but it could be done. Try that with VMware.


Containers I've found to be the least useful. It's all one OS.


This Containers is the building block for virtualizing everything, the Network stack, etc. Everything is virtualized in Solaris 11. Create as many network cards as you want, create as many Containers as you want, etc - thus you can have lot of virtual servers in one Server. This is why Solaris11 is called "First Virtual OS" ever. In Linux, if you create a container, is everything else virtualized? The network stack? etc? No?

[/q]

With ESXi, KVM, Xen, yes, everything is virtualized. And honestly, it's much more flexible and useful than containers. Any OS, not just Solaris. Add as many network cards as you want. I can migrate a VM from one host to another live. Plenty of open source and closed source appliances for storage, firewalls, IPS/IDS, etc.

Sun made Solaris less relevant, and Oracle made it even less so (by closing it back up and abandoning OpenSolaris). It's a shame, but that's why I say 'meh' with Solaris.

Reply Parent Score: 2

visconde_de_sabugosa Member since:
2005-11-14

I heard that KVM is being ported to Solaris. Is it true ?

Does anyone have experience with kvm on Solaris?

Is there another way of full hardware virtualization on Solaris?

Reply Parent Score: 2

tony Member since:
2005-07-06

I heard that KVM is being ported to Solaris. Is it true ?

Does anyone have experience with kvm on Solaris?

Is there another way of full hardware virtualization on Solaris?


It wouldn't surprise me. Oracle actually has a virtualization platform (Oracle VM), but is basically a Xen hypervisor.

Reply Parent Score: 2

ctl_alt_del Member since:
2006-05-14

Joyent has SmartOS which is the Illumos (forked OpenSolaris) kernel + KVM ( http://smartos.org ). Not sure if the KVM work is moving back into Illumos. In which case OpenIndiana, nexenta and other Illumos siblings could have KVM capabilities in the future as well.

Reply Parent Score: 2

libray Member since:
2005-08-27

I
Is there another way of full hardware virtualization on Solaris?


Solaris Logical Domains for the Sparc platform is a fully virtualized environment. This has been renamed under the umbrella of Oracle VM and aligned with the xen effort for x86. Resources are allocated from a VMM or two (service, control domains). The OS that is installed does not require modification and includes both Solaris sparc and Linux for sparc.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Cloudwashing
by Kebabbert on Mon 14th Nov 2011 11:34 in reply to "RE[4]: Cloudwashing"
Kebabbert Member since:
2007-07-27

Oh, I know about that stuff. I just don't care.

Ok, it seems that you dislike Solaris because of political reasons. That is fine with me. But on the other hand, Sun did open up most of their sources, I would like to see MS or IBM open up all of their sources. Only Sun of the big companies, did that. No one else. Did you see MS open up Windows? Sun payed 90 million USD to get licenses to open up OpenSolaris (it used proprietary libraries)

But the worse part about DTrace has always been Sun, and now it's Oracle.


the worst part about ZFS was Sun and now Oracle. Sun was terribly run, and Oracle is just... has left a very bad taste in my mouth.




Solaris isn't widely deployed, is getting less widely deployed,[q]
Solaris is widely deployed in the Enterprise. Larry Ellison says that Solaris is the most common OS that the Oracle Database is running on. And Oracle should know which OSes their customers are using.

Solaris has more servers deployed, than IBM and HP combined. Now I am talking about Solaris vs AIX+HPUX, i.e. Unix servers.

Old Sun had 35.000 customers. Oracle have 350.000 Enterprise customers. Earlier there was only technical reasons to switch to Solaris (scalability, etc) now Oracle will also make sure there are business reasons to switch to Solaris. Many Enterprise customers are running Oracle Database.



[q]DTrace isn't enough (for me, and for most people) to switch.

It is because you are not a developer. There are several Linux devs that have switched to Solaris just because of DTrace.



A real effort has been made in the last few years to move away from being OS dependent. To keep the apps and data separated from the OS, or to use virtualization technology (like snapshots) to obviate issues like that. Nice feature, but eh, not enough to switch.

I did not understand this. If you do a patch or get a virus or something bad, then how does it help to be OS independent? You still need to reinstall everything, or do hard work with the CLI to try to repair. Or, you can just reboot into GRUB and you are done.




Containers I've found to be the least useful. It's all one OS.

It is because you are not a sysadmins at a Enterprise company. Solaris is for Enterprise. A desktop user might not find Solaris compelling. Now Illumos (the open sourced community driven Solaris kernel) is working to bring back Linux Container again, into Solaris.



With ESXi, KVM, Xen, yes, everything is virtualized. And honestly, it's much more flexible and useful than containers.

It uses much more cpu and RAM than Containers. IBM has even copied Containers, and IBM would not copy containers if it not was useful. IBM knows virtualization.




Sun made Solaris less relevant, and Oracle made it even less so (by closing it back up and abandoning OpenSolaris). It's a shame, but that's why I say 'meh' with Solaris.

OpenIndiana, Nexenta, SmartOS, etc is out there. OpenIndiana is a direct fork of OpenSolaris. Community driven.

Reply Parent Score: 2