Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 16th Nov 2011 23:38 UTC, submitted by sb56637
SuSE, openSUSE And another popular Linux distribution pushes a new release out the door. This time around, it's openSUSE, as they just released version 12.1. Other than the usual latest and greatest version of all the open source desktops and associated tools, there's a few other interesting tidbits in this release as well.
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RE: Well, it looks nice...
by avgalen on Thu 17th Nov 2011 07:44 UTC in reply to "Well, it looks nice..."
avgalen
Member since:
2010-09-23

Let's say that trying out a distribution takes an evening to download and install, another evening to configure everything the way you want it and then a couple of evenings to discover the good and the bad....that is a lot of wasted time if it turns out there is not enough good.

So if you are having a nicely setup Windows 7 environment (or any other OS) that does most of the things you want and does it well (after at least the same amount of evenings invested) then every other OS will have to bring a lot of good to the table to convince me to switch or at least multi-boot.

So far I have spend about 100 evenings on distributions ranging from RedHat 5.2 (yes, a century ago) until the latest Ubuntu and it NEVER supports all my current hardware (ranging from standard Compaq Deskpro's to home-build whiteboxes to laptops to netbooks now)

Linux is surely getting better and better and it seems to work well for others. But Windows always seems to be ahead in hardware support and most of the better Open Source programs actually run better on Windows than on Linux. I would like to have a free OS without 5 update-cycles after a fresh install, but my almost free Windows is just working better.

.....yet I keep trying a couple of times every year when I hear about the newest generation of Linux Distributions constantly setting myself up for disappointment. But at least I am not "just another dumb Windows user".

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Well, it looks nice...
by unclefester on Thu 17th Nov 2011 08:34 in reply to "RE: Well, it looks nice..."
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

The solution:

a) Buy Linux compatible hardware.

b) Find a distro you like and stick with it.

I use Ubuntu LTS. It takes an hour to install and an hour or two to tweak once every 2-3 years.

Reply Parent Score: 6

AmigaRobbo Member since:
2005-11-15

User error huh?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Well, it looks nice...
by avgalen on Thu 17th Nov 2011 11:45 in reply to "RE[2]: Well, it looks nice..."
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

uhm, as you read I have tried to install on different branded desktops, custom built desktops, laptops, netbooks and there is always some sort of hardware that isn't supported (Wifi, tv-card, raid, sound) while there are always drivers available for Windows that work just fine. An OS should support hardware, hardware shouldn't support an OS. Especially on Linux it seems that all drivers are in the kernel, that every distribution uses those some kernels....and still people (in this thread) say that in distribution X their Wifi worked and in distribution Y it doesn't.

I liked Corel Linux a lot back in the days, but sticking with it didn't work (it died). Puppy is the only distribution that I use once in a while for recovery work where "all drivers working" isn't important. But even for that I prefer Hiren, BartPE or WinPE.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[3]: Well, it looks nice...
by testman on Sun 20th Nov 2011 03:16 in reply to "RE[2]: Well, it looks nice..."
testman Member since:
2007-10-15

a) Buy Linux compatible hardware.

If you want to knowingly limit your options, why not just get a Mac?

Alternatively, buy Windows and have a wide range of hardware and software to choose from.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Well, it looks nice...
by riversj on Sun 20th Nov 2011 09:14 in reply to "RE[2]: Well, it looks nice..."
riversj Member since:
2011-03-18

Not hard to find compatible hardware either.
When you consider most recent kernels support masses of hardware out of the box without having to obtain drivers separately it's also a plus. I just wish the quality of the wireless drivers were a little better.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Well, it looks nice...
by ricegf on Thu 17th Nov 2011 11:45 in reply to "RE: Well, it looks nice..."
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

You love Windows so, yet you've had 25 flings over the past 10 years with various Linux products? You philanderer, you! :-D

Oddly, I've had exactly the opposite experience with hardware. Linux works out of the box with almost everything I've tried, while Windows has generally required that I search out and install at least one or two drivers per install (either that or dig through the dusty CD bin). We have very different tastes in hardware, I suppose.

One of the great things about libre software is that it tends to run on every platform we use. Of course, we've discovered the same is now true (at least for Windows and Red Hat) for most commercial software that we use - other than Microsoft Office or the occasional vertical app, app needs favor Windows far less frequently than in the Red Hat 5.2 days. Benchmarks show our apps run much faster under Linux, though, which is certainly driving our architecture.

This is important, as the ongoing mobile revolution is shaking up the market dramatically. It's interesting to see Microsoft following Ubuntu's lead in moving to a mobilesque shell on their primary product. This is a particularly good time to broaden your experiences beyond the WIMP paradigm, as the big UI innovators now are Android and iOS, driving touch to laptops and desktops - who hasn't absently tried to move a window or activate a button on a laptop screen with their finger yet?

OS philandering is important to any self-respecting geek. Heck, you should spend 4 evenings with Haiku - you never know who might steal your heart! ;-)

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Well, it looks nice...
by No it isnt on Thu 17th Nov 2011 12:13 in reply to "RE: Well, it looks nice..."
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

That's strange. I've set up two Windows 7 desktops for my parents the last year, one Asus and one HP, and both took longer to configure for first boot than doing a complete installation of whatever Linux distro I've tried (possibly excluding Arch). That's for pre-installed OEM versions of Windows 7, and not considering all the crapware and demo versions of constantly malfunctioning virus scanners you have to uninstall to make the computer usable (I don't know why they all seem to prefer crap to the functional Microsoft Security Essentials), or downloading and installing various apps that come with the Linux distro.

Of course, if you disregard the fact that Windows actually needs to be installed and configured and pretend this is something uniquely Linux-y, then Windows wins, hands down. Then again, that's disingenuous.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Well, it looks nice...
by avgalen on Thu 17th Nov 2011 14:38 in reply to "RE[2]: Well, it looks nice..."
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

I never said that Windows supports all hardware out of the box. I mostly have to use Driver-CD's or go online but all the drivers ARE available. For Linux they just aren't, not for all the hardware.

And Windows isn't shorter than Linux to setup, I actually said both take a couple of evenings to do it properly. For Windows it helps a lot to use a "clean" CD, not the Rescue-Partition that contains 25 trials for everything. Then it is a matter of updating the drivers (cd/usb/windows update) and ninite.com for all the basics. After that some tweaking to make everything look, feel and act like I want to and installing some big tools (Visual Studio, Office) and of course waiting a long time for all the updates to download AND install and reboots

Linux installs in roughly the same time, finding some tools in the repisotories and installing them is easy and fast (latest version, no endless updating) but drivers (even after lots of searching and "helpdesking" I still can't get it to work) take much longer and making every look and work the way I want to is hard (or impossible with the latest Ubuntu's on a 1024x600 netbook display)

I have used Beos in the past and it was fast and beautiful and lacked any security and multi-user and 10 years later Haiku isn't much better (and hardware support......hahahahaha)

I can get work done on Linux and Windows, but not on any other OS. And given that hardware support is task 1 for an OS and Linux still fails on that (again, on many different types of hardware over a 15 year period) I keep being disappointed. I love the Open Source philosophy but am still choosing to run lots of closed source productivity tools on a closed source OS because it just .... is more productive. And since I can use so many Open Source programs on Windows anyway AND there isn't much that I am missing on Windows it is working fine

....but I am a geek that loves trying new stuff and with Linux there is new stuff to try out every couple of months while with Windows things come in major waves

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Well, it looks nice...
by Dave_K on Thu 17th Nov 2011 16:41 in reply to "RE: Well, it looks nice..."
Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

That mirrors my experiences with Linux almost perfectly, right down to Redhat 5 being my first distribution.

I must have installed 50 different Linux distributions on 20 different computers without it ever working perfectly. Admittedly quite a few of those were laptops (I've spent 30+ hours just trying to get Linux working well on my Thinkpad), but even the generic desktops always have issues that need fixing, or hardware that simply isn't supported.

About 95% of my computing time is spent using Windows, but easily 95% of the time I spend researching and solving problems is down to Linux. It's interesting that Linux just works for some people, but that's a completely alien experience to me.

I'm enthusiastic enough that I don't mind wasting some time playing with Linux when a new distribution catches my interest (I'll probably give OpenSUSE 12.1 a try later and see how far I get), but I'm glad to have an easy to use OS like Windows available when Linux gets frustrating and I don't want the hassle.

Reply Parent Score: 2

jessesmith Member since:
2010-03-11

I think that's interesting. My experience has been almost exactly the opposite to yours. My Linux installs, at least the big-name distributions, typically "just work". On the other hand, I'm constantly trying to fix or correct things on Windows. I imagine hardware accounts for a lot of the difference.

At any rate, I'm trying out openSUSE 12.1 now and it's been a solid experience thus far. If you hardware is compatible, I suspect you will enjoy it.

Reply Parent Score: 2

unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13


I must have installed 50 different Linux distributions on 20 different computers without it ever working perfectly. Admittedly quite a few of those were laptops (I've spent 30+ hours just trying to get Linux working well on my Thinkpad), but even the generic desktops always have issues that need fixing, or hardware that simply isn't supported.


You must be the world's unluckiest person! /sarc.

No one else seems to have the same mysterious hardware problems on generic desktop hardware - at least not in the last decade.

Reply Parent Score: 3