Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 2nd Dec 2011 18:41 UTC
Windows Windows 8 will have both the new Metro-style applications and user interface and the traditional Windows 7 desktop for legacy applications, which kind of runs like an application. Since legacy applications have to be recompiled to run on ARM anyway, it's always been a bit unclear if the ARM version of Windows 8 would include the legacy desktop at all - even Microsoft itself confirmed it wasn't sure yet. Microsoft bloggers Mary-Jo Foley and Paul Thurrot have fresh rumours that Microsoft has now made the decision to remove the legacy desktop from the ARM version.
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RE[2]: the new vista
by Alfman on Sat 3rd Dec 2011 05:02 UTC in reply to "RE: the new vista"
Member since:


"Except Vista was only junk initially, and only because hardware manufactures used the limited driver availability to try to force people to buy new hardware, rather than update drivers for previous generations of hardware."

Actually, you may not be aware of this, but microsoft deserves most of the blame for driver incompatibilities in vista. Technically, all of the XP drivers would still work under vista if microsoft hadn't made a policy change to reject unsigned/self signed drivers in the window kernel. I experienced this first hand with my own windows file system drivers.

In XP years, if you recall, even large manufacturers released two versions of their drivers, the windows certified ones, and the latest official (yet uncertified by microsoft) drivers. For end users, it always made sense to install the latest drivers, but MS would remove that option in Vista.

Third parties did provide end users with a means to bypass microsoft vista driver restrictions. These tools were genuinely useful as they allowed end users to install xp drivers for older hardware on vista, but microsoft didn't like users overriding their policy, and they revoked the tool's certificates.

"...Atsiv, a tool designed by Australian developer Linchpin Labs, as part of a research project into driver signing. Microsoft responded to the creation of Atsiv by revoking its certificate and classifying the utility as malware, much to Linchpin Labs' chagrin. Atsiv had evolved into a project that allowed users of legacy hardware to use their kit on Vista without signed drivers."

Whatever MS's reasons to reject user's control over their own systems, the net effect was quite devastating for independent/OSS developers like me who had been writing our own windows kernel drivers. Needless to say, I'm no longer inclined to waste my time improving windows only to be kicked out by microsoft.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: the new vista
by lucas_maximus on Sun 4th Dec 2011 16:08 in reply to "RE[2]: the new vista"
lucas_maximus Member since:

Signed drivers are a good idea, I won't install any driver on my system if it isn't WHQL.

People forget how bad Windows 2000 and Windows XP at RTM ... I held off until Service Pack 2 of Windows XP.

Vista while initially had some problems was fine after Service Pack 1.

The latest version of Vista is pretty much Windows 7 underneath and Vista UI on top.

As for the OP, saying Win8 will be another Vista ... The Platform Preview is pretty damn stable considering it isn't even Alpha.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: the new vista
by Alfman on Tue 6th Dec 2011 08:39 in reply to "RE[3]: the new vista"
Alfman Member since:


"Signed drivers are a good idea, I won't install any driver on my system if it isn't WHQL."

Drivers can be signed without WHQL. At least it was your prerogative back then to choose the Microsoft certified drivers over the latest stable drivers available. For all we know, your choice may have been partly responsible for your windowx xp instabilities, I certainly experienced problems with WHQL drivers that were fixed by updating.

Anyways I think you missed the point of my post, which was that vista had poor hardware support not because of lack of compatible drivers, but because microsoft policy was to forcefully disable them on user machines.

Edited 2011-12-06 08:46 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2