Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 2nd Dec 2011 18:41 UTC
Windows Windows 8 will have both the new Metro-style applications and user interface and the traditional Windows 7 desktop for legacy applications, which kind of runs like an application. Since legacy applications have to be recompiled to run on ARM anyway, it's always been a bit unclear if the ARM version of Windows 8 would include the legacy desktop at all - even Microsoft itself confirmed it wasn't sure yet. Microsoft bloggers Mary-Jo Foley and Paul Thurrot have fresh rumours that Microsoft has now made the decision to remove the legacy desktop from the ARM version.
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RE[4]: missed opportunity
by Neolander on Sat 3rd Dec 2011 07:14 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: missed opportunity"
Neolander
Member since:
2010-03-08

I disagree that "oversized controls" are only suitable for content consumption. For proof, just take a gander at the iPad versions of iWork, iMovie, GarageBand, and the plethora of other office and music production tools available for iPad.

Are you seriously advocating that those nearly compete with the content creation power of a desktop or laptop ? That you would without question type a 25-pages LaTeX report on an iPad ? I know that some people have fun finger painting and that someone from Gorillaz made a song or two on an iPad, but that does not mean that the tool is nearly as well-suited to the job as alternatives...

Just because iPad is marketed first and foremost as a content consumption tool doesn't mean that touch isn't perfectly capable of supporting content creation. Yes, in many cases a rethink of the UI is necessary, and yes, there will be many awkward experiments on the road to success, but I am highly skeptical that WIMP is "the one true way" and that touch is by definition crippled.

Touch OSs ARE WIMP. They just deal with hardware that has a smaller screen and a much, much more imprecise pointer, which in the end means significantly less controls that are not hidden behind several of levels of menu indirection.

On a side note, I do not believe that tablets are fundamentally incompatible with more serious content creation, if more capable input peripherals are attached to them. This is why I closely watch stuff such as Asus' Eee Pad Transformer and the HTC Flyer : I believe this is the kind of initiatives through which tablets could rise beyond the status of expensive toys, though OS and application support is obviously not there yet.

Edited 2011-12-03 07:17 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: missed opportunity
by MysterMask on Sat 3rd Dec 2011 11:53 in reply to "RE[4]: missed opportunity"
MysterMask Member since:
2005-07-12

Your horizon concerning 'content creation' is too limited: there is other content then large LATEX documents or 10000 lines of source code. It's just that traditional PCs / Laptops where never used for certain content creation stuff because they were unsuitable for the job. You can't measure 'content creation' by setting it equal to 'content created with PCs'.

E. g. think about photography: would you use the PC to take a picture? No, you would use it only for 'post-creation' because the camera is not good for that (to little cpu power, unsuitable interface). Now imagine having a device like a tablet with a bigger display than a camera and enough cpu-power to do photo editing / enhancements 'in-situ'. No need to carry a heavy laptop with you in most cases ..
Same goes for live music as already mentioned above.
Or think about SMS/Twitter/.. . this is content, too and it works well enough in mobile situations on touch devices (or at least way better than carrying a Laptop/PC around).

The cool thing about the 'post PC' era are new opportunities for creative developers and this includes media creation, too. Just because people (and hence developers) are more often consumers than creators and hence more creative applications for consumption than creation are developed does not mean that there are no media creation solution suitable for touch / tables input.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: missed opportunity
by Neolander on Sat 3rd Dec 2011 13:08 in reply to "RE[5]: missed opportunity"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Your horizon concerning 'content creation' is too limited: there is other content then large LATEX documents or 10000 lines of source code. It's just that traditional PCs / Laptops where never used for certain content creation stuff because they were unsuitable for the job. You can't measure 'content creation' by setting it equal to 'content created with PCs'.

But I can reasonably state that current PCs are much more suitable for heavy content creation (as opposed to writing < 1000 char mails or cropping photos) than current tablets.

E. g. think about photography: would you use the PC to take a picture? No, you would use it only for 'post-creation' because the camera is not good for that (to little cpu power, unsuitable interface). Now imagine having a device like a tablet with a bigger display than a camera and enough cpu-power to do photo editing / enhancements 'in-situ'. No need to carry a heavy laptop with you in most cases ..

You have a point. However, before this actually happens, transferring photographs between a camera and a tablet must be made much more seamless than it currently is, as an example by equipping more tablets with USB ports or SD card slots.

Guess this won't be a standard feature of Apple's tablets anytime soon, maybe Android users will have more luck.

Same goes for live music as already mentioned above.

What do you call live music in this context ?

Or think about SMS/Twitter/.. . this is content, too and it works well enough in mobile situations on touch devices (or at least way better than carrying a Laptop/PC around).

You are talking to the wrong person for that. I am a heavy texter (~1000 texts/months), and even the most basic keypad-based cellphone out there is better for texting than my current touchscreen-based phone. I bought it in March as an experiment to see if I can finally understand the touchscreen fad, and the answer is clear : I do not. It's just horrible. I'm definitely going back to candybar keyboard-based phones for every future purchase. I know that some people manage to put up with them, though, and I'm happy for them, but I, personally, need something more serious.

The cool thing about the 'post PC' era are new opportunities for creative developers and this includes media creation, too. Just because people (and hence developers) are more often consumers than creators and hence more creative applications for consumption than creation are developed does not mean that there are no media creation solution suitable for touch / tables input.

Well, again, I do not dispute that statement if you equip those with more serious input devices, such as an optional keyboard or stylus that seamlessly integrates within the tablet's design.

Edited 2011-12-03 13:10 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: missed opportunity
by henderson101 on Sat 3rd Dec 2011 17:01 in reply to "RE[4]: missed opportunity"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Are you seriously advocating that those nearly compete with the content creation power of a desktop or laptop ? That you would without question type a 25-pages LaTeX report on an iPad ? I know that some people have fun finger painting and that someone from Gorillaz made a song or two on an iPad, but that does not mean that the tool is nearly as well-suited to the job as alternatives...


Yes, I would. I've written long documents in Pages on my iPad. Honestly.

I've also recorded demos on my iPad in GarageBand. For GarageBand, you can start a project on the way home (lay down some drums and synths) then import the project in to GarageBand on the Mac and finish off with live instraments. But, I've also done 100% on my iPad, and iPhone as well. Having GarageBand on the iPhone is mind bending. A tascam portastudio 04 used to be £300+ as a stand alone in the 1990's. 4 tracks. GarageBand will do 8 tracks, and costs next to nothing. Yeah, you have to buy the phone/device, but if you have it anyway... Well...

Oh - and iMovie. Since iOS 5, my Kodak zi8 is supported out of the box, so I can record video and edit "live" and have it on YouTube/Vimeo right away. Again, game changer for me.

Oh, and I replied to this on an iPad 2 using the virtual keyboard. So, I stand by everything I'm saying and living by my words.

Reply Parent Score: 2