Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 12th Jan 2012 22:54 UTC
FreeBSD Some people already submitted this news last week, but it wasn't until today that it became official: the FreeBSD team has announced the release of FreeBSD version 9.0. As you may expect from the major version number change, this is releas eis packed with new stuff.
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RE: FSF-like Ideology against GPL
by mdoverkil on Fri 13th Jan 2012 00:03 UTC in reply to "FSF-like Ideology against GPL"
mdoverkil
Member since:
2005-09-30

First comment brings up the licenses, great. I can already see where this thread will be going. 70+ comments about licensing from non-developers and 5 comments about the actual release.

Reply Parent Score: 3

0brad0 Member since:
2007-05-05

First comment brings up the licenses, great. I can already see where this thread will be going.


Yes, the GPL zealots will start posting. That's a given.

Reply Parent Score: 0

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Frankly I couldn't care less about licenses but maybe someone can answer what I DO care about which is the USERS. I sell boxes and laptops to Suzy the checkout girl and Brian the backhoe operator, you know, normal folks?

Well despite all the claims of "user friendly" Linux distros I have yet to have a single one pass my "is it safe?" test which simulates what my customer would go through with just 3 years of ownership. I take a distro from 3 years ago, install it, make sure ALL the hardware works, then using whatever GUI the system has update it to current. I have YET to have a Linux that didn't puke on its own drivers and end up with a broken mess that can ONLY be fixed with CLI that is above the skillset of my customers, thus making Linux useless.

So my question is thus: If I take say FreeBSD or PCBSD and give it my "is it safe test" what are the odds it will have 100% functionality? The great XP dieoff is underway and frankly i'm getting insanely overpowered XP boxes dirt cheap, we're talking 2.3GHz-3.6Ghz P4s with 512Mb to 2Gb of RAM and DVD burners, more than enough power for your average FB user. But unless I can find a free distro that is actually worth using I'm gonna have to can the whole lot, just strip them for parts, because a Win 7 HP license costs more than the box and I can't find a source of Win 7 Starter for system builders.

So if anybody can answer this for me I'd be grateful, we aren't talking funny hardware, the same Realtek sound and the big three IGPs everybody has had for ages, you know bog standard Intel and ATI chipsets, plain jane boring. you'd think with well known hardware like that Linux would work but nope, broken city. Is BSD any better? Is it worth me wasting the bandwidth or is it another CLI fest? Remember my customers are NOT geeks, no CLI allowed, it has to be easy peasy clicky clicky. Is BSD up to the challenge or should I not even bother?

Reply Parent Score: 1

pkubaj Member since:
2012-01-13

In FreeBSD you must set up everything with CLI and the standard way of installing software is compilation.

Reply Parent Score: 4

obsidian Member since:
2007-05-12

Hi bassbeast - have you tried Linux Mint? It is renowned for its user-friendliness.
I use it and am very happy with it. It has a graphical tool (Synaptic) for installing apps.
I'd definitely recommend it if you haven't tried it.

Edited 2012-01-13 02:16 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I sell boxes and laptops to Suzy the checkout girl and Brian the backhoe operator, you know, normal folks?


Increasingly, Suzy and Brian are discovering that a smart phone and game console will cover most of their needs. Personally, I'd be happy if the AOL 2.0 set would move on, stop calling themselves "geeks" (with a giggle) and sequester themselves on FaceBook and Twitter, allowing the rest of us to get on with our legitimate tech interests.

Edited 2012-01-13 02:48 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

I have yet to have a single one pass my "is it safe?" test which simulates what my customer would go through with just 3 years of ownership. I take a distro from 3 years ago, install it, make sure ALL the hardware works, then using whatever GUI the system has update it to current. I have YET to have a Linux that didn't puke on its own drivers and end up with a broken mess that can ONLY be fixed with CLI that is above the skillset of my customers, thus making Linux useless.

What I'm going to write is probably not what you want to hear, but your "is it safe" test is pure balderdash. You are expecting a Linux or BSD distribution from 3 years ago, which is ancient, to update to current without a glitch. You are asking for a level of backward compatibility that even MS isn't offering. Try to update an adequately powerful machine with XP to Windows 7 without the appropriate third party software and driver disks handy and see the spectacular ways in which an update from ancient software to current can blow up.

What people seem to forget is that Windows XP is a fluke in the history of consumer Operating Systems. Microsoft never meant for XP to be the defacto OS for over 10 years. This lull in OS upgrades was beneficial for users, but it never was the general rule. The upgrade cycle was supposed to be "Buy a new machine every 3 years". After Vista we have entered that cycle again. So your "Suzy the checkout girl and Brian the backhoe operator" will have to buy new equipment every 3 years with MS OSes. (Assuming that MS will keep upping the system requirements.)

If you care enough about selling FOSS systems to "Suzy and Brian", why don't you treat a Linux or BSD system the way they are meant to be treated? No endless updating to current if that can't be done by a clueless end user (and they can't). I'm a Linux user, so don't ask me about the intricacies of BSD. BSD users are infinitely more qualified to talk about that. What I can offer as advice is a simple one about Linux and it might even give you some auxiliary repeat business.

Set up your machines with an easy to use (NOTE! USE not UPDATE to current) distribution. Disable the dist-upgrade option of that distro, so that the major version is frozen. Put the /home directory on a separate partition. Offer your customers a "refresh package" every couple of years for an appropriate fee and update the machines yourself to the latest and greatest. LTS versions should be a great target for this. Your customers don't get headaches, you get a bit more business, everybody wins.

Then again, you could also continue your (futile?) quest for the perfect software which never breaks. Your choice.

Reply Parent Score: 10

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

PC-BSD is pretty solid IMO.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Barnabyh Member since:
2006-02-06

A Red Hat EL 6 clone like CentOS or Scientific Linux would be a good fit. Not to go back three years, Read: you should install the latest, but it will be supported until at least 2017 and would be good enough for people who don't need bleeding edge.
After all, once the media player has been fed with all necessary codecs you only need to update from the repos.

That should be long enough, and you can probably long before that sell them a machine with 7 on it.

It would be up to you as the reseller to enable additional media repos and set up the desktop a bit nice, with a shiny wallpaper maybe, and once your GOLD image is done you're good for a while, maybe spinning a new one for updates from time to time.

Reply Parent Score: 2

foldingstock Member since:
2008-10-30

Well despite all the claims of "user friendly" Linux distros I have yet to have a single one pass my "is it safe?" test which simulates what my customer would go through with just 3 years of ownership. I take a distro from 3 years ago, install it, make sure ALL the hardware works, then using whatever GUI the system has update it to current. I have YET to have a Linux that didn't puke on its own drivers and end up with a broken mess that can ONLY be fixed with CLI that is above the skillset of my customers, thus making Linux useless.


Have you ever tried Debian? Granted my personal experience is likely to be different from yours and other people here, but I have never had a Debian old_stable->stable upgrade fail. I have had plenty of Debian testing/sid upgrades fail, which is part of the fun of running testing/sid, but stable has always served me well.

As my avatar may indicate, I very much like the *BSD's. That said, I do not think FreeBSD is a good fit for your needs since it is a cli-oriented system that requires a user to read manuals and work directly with the cli to install/patch/upgrade software.

Reply Parent Score: 1