Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 13th Jan 2012 16:20 UTC, submitted by moondevil
Windows And so the war on general computing continues. Were you looking forward to ARM laptops and maybe even desktops now that Windows 8 will also be released for ARM? I personally was, because I'd much rather have a thin, but fast and economical machine than a beastly Intel PC. Sadly, it turns out that all our fears regarding UEFI's Secure Boot feature were justified: Microsoft prohibits OEMs from allowing you to install anything other than Windows 8 on ARM devices (the Software Freedom Law Center has more).
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lucas_maximus
Member since:
2009-08-18

Isn't the UEFI issue being discussed here related to ARM based ultrabooks not tablets? And why, after plunking down money to buy the hardware, should a device owner not be able to opt-out of secure boot and apply whatever OS they choose to it?


Because you are being sold something that is a complete product ... you aren't being sold a tablet that can boot Windows 8 and other operating systems.

You are buying a device that is sold as running Windows 8. If you don't like it ... buy something else.

I also find it intersting that you justify limiting everyone's computing experience based on the opinion of someone who can't even explain what you do for a living let alone understand the potential outcomes of hardware locked to a specific OS for no other effective reason than one companies profiteering strategy?


LOL ... the idea is that most people IMO should never need to know how a tablet works or ever care. It should do what it does, never bother them until it gets wrong where they take it to a professional to get fixed.

Apple sells this as a feature ... btw you may wish to google Simon Sinek ... it will explain it better than I ever could.

Do you care how an Aircraft flies (I know quite a lot about it, I have a HND in Mechanical Engineering) but most people don't.

Do people care how a car works ... Nope.

Do people care how a washing machine works .. Nope

Do people care how a TV works ... Nope.

A Tablet is a product.

Reply Parent Score: 2

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

If the option is a locked ARM device running win8 or another "complete package" which does allow another OS, you can bet your baby I'll "buy something else".

The point is, there is no benefit to the end user with this scheme. It does not improve the security of the owner's information. Malware will still be affective as will social engineering attacks. The only benefit is Microsoft's limiting comptitive OS on general purpose hardware.

And your apeal to numbers argument regarding users who do not wish to understand how technology works; so what? Why should Bob not understanding how a TV works stop Fred from doing so? Why should it limit hardware resuse with lighter general purpose OS when win8 grows too heavy for the older geenration Ultrabooks? Why should tech support people be locked out of bootable tools when helping those who do not care how technology works but want it fixed "now, now, now, now!!"?

Reply Parent Score: 2

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

If the option is a locked ARM device running win8 or another "complete package" which does allow another OS, you can bet your baby I'll "buy something else".

The point is, there is no benefit to the end user with this scheme. It does not improve the security of the owner's information. Malware will still be affective as will social engineering attacks. The only benefit is Microsoft's limiting comptitive OS on general purpose hardware.


I hope you will buy something else and quit bitching about something that won't really affect you.

Many viruses and malware have gone back to installing themselves in the MBR ... so it does benefit the end user that don't know anything about computer security (which was the point I was trying to make about them not ever having to care how it works).

And your appeal to numbers argument regarding users who do not wish to understand how technology works; so what? Why should Bob not understanding how a TV works stop Fred from doing so? Why should it limit hardware reuse with lighter general purpose OS when win8 grows too heavy for the older geenration Ultrabooks? Why should tech support people be locked out of bootable tools when helping those who do not care how technology works but want it fixed "now, now, now, now!!"?


Windows 8 will use less resources and it won't grow "heavy" ... pretty much like Windows 2000, Windows XP and Windows 7 and 8 (which uses less resources than 7 btw, I am running the platform preview .. so I actually use this stuff before shouting my mouth off)

There is nothing stopping Fred from learning about computers, it all over bloody Google. Linux my friend does not teach you how a computer works.

Not being able to install random OS != Restricting Information.

I am pretty sure that many of the strongest proponents of Linux won't be able to tell you the differences between pages and frames.

As for tech support, the person will just send it back to be fixed under warranty.

Edited 2012-01-13 19:34 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

lucas_maximus,

"You are buying a device that is sold as running Windows 8. If you don't like it ... buy something else."


If we continue on this path, then that may be the only choice we will have; anyone wanting to develop or run non-mainstream operating systems will have to pay a premium for niche hardware which explicitly supports it. Not only does this hinder accessibility of alternative operating systems for users, it discourages their development and significantly increases barriers to entry. Ordinary hardware, because of explicit restrictions, will no longer do dual booting, no user mods, no device re-purposing, etc.

This is a less desirable future than one where devices are open and unrestricted, and users are free to use their own hardware however they see fit. We need to be as vocal as possible about the issues to raise public awareness as much as we can.

Reply Parent Score: 9

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

]

If we continue on this path, then that may be the only choice we will have; anyone wanting to develop or run non-mainstream operating systems will have to pay a premium for niche hardware which explicitly supports it.


Audiophiles already do this. They pay a premium for the extra "audio" quality. Some results are amazing (my friend has such a system).

I already do this for bicycle parts and I often buy components for my bicycle that are worth more than the bicycle itself. I run quite a lot of bikes from the late 70s to the mid-90s and getting parts for these push bikes is a pain.

You have to pay for you hobby unfortunately. Running things like Haiku, Linux and other things are mostly done by hobbyists or by professionals which already have the correct hardware requirements

It much like how I pay for having a custom PC, I have a 16GB main workstation, with Two Graphics card (for playing games), and a Dual Xeon Board with dual SSDs ... I pay the premium for all of this, because other than foreign women, good beer, weight lifting and bikes I also I like computers and I am lucky enough to have a job that started off like a hobby.

Not only does this hinder accessibility of alternative operating systems for users, it discourages their development and significantly increases barriers to entry. Ordinary hardware, because of explicit restrictions, will no longer do dual booting, no user mods, no device re-purposing, etc.


So? As I keep on saying, nobody complains that the Kindle (my e-Ink basic version 4) only boot the Amazon OS (I have no idea, nor I care what it is) and lets me only buy books from the amazon store. It is a product that lets me read books, I really do not care even if the OS is locked down ... I bought a Kindle to act like a Kindle.

This is a less desirable future than one where devices are open and unrestricted, and users are free to use their own hardware however they see fit. We need to be as vocal as possible about the issues to raise public awareness as much as we can.


I said it elsewhere this will actually open up a market for enthusiasts, since there will be companies (much like AmigaOS scene) that will exploit this niche. This will create some jobs and new software products.

I think the real issue is that people don't want to have to actually you know pay money for something they are interested in, hobbies cost money. I have spent a small fortune on my bicycles, a large fortune on good booze, more on taking nice ladies out, and I have paid over the odds for my obsolete SGI machines.

Edited 2012-01-13 21:10 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 0

zlynx Member since:
2005-07-20

Do people care how a car works ... Nope.


Except that quite a lot of people do. That's why my friends joke that I must have the only unmodified Subaru STI in the world. And even though I don't change the car's hardware or programming, I know how it works and I do care a lot about tires and alignment.

One of my best friends has already started modding his Prius. He's got a display that shows him all kinds of extra engine and battery data. He'll probably be running custom firmware by summer.

Reply Parent Score: 7