Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 12th Jan 2012 22:54 UTC
FreeBSD Some people already submitted this news last week, but it wasn't until today that it became official: the FreeBSD team has announced the release of FreeBSD version 9.0. As you may expect from the major version number change, this is releas eis packed with new stuff.
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bassbeast
Member since:
2007-11-11

Yes I have, I tried my "Is it safe?" test and it puked on its sound and the wireless. Oh and the DE ended up with this weird bug where half of the time any changes in the network manager wouldn't "stick" past a reboot and ONLY would stick if the changes were done via CLI which is right out.

So far I have tried Ubuntu/Mint, PCLOS, Mepis, Fedora (I know its bleeding edge but I got tired of being told "Use Distro X" so I did it just to prove it would fail) Puppy and one other I can't recall off the top of my head. basically everything listed as "User friendly" I've done tried and watched as it puked on its own drivers and died hard when upgraded/dated to current.

The simple fact is I need a free OS that will last 6-8 years either on a single install WITH security updates (none of this "Linux is magical and doesn't need security patches" craziness like they tried to sell me on Linux Insider) or it HAS to be able to do in place GUI upgrades without puking and dying. I have tried ALL of the above and not a single one ended up with 100% functionality even when using a lousy 3 years as a metric, much less the 6-8 years that is the average lifetime of a desktop in this area.

Its kinda sad though that here we are in the start of the "great XP dieoff" where millions of frankly insanely overpowered desktops and laptops are being sold for pennies on the dollar and I can't find a single free OS that will pass muster. I have been told every kind of BS from "Linux doesn't need security updates" (Lie) to "You should teach your users to embrace the power of CLI" like its the fricking force (not happening as normal users don't want to be programmers) to "You must be a M$ Ninja!" for daring to point out that the Koolaid is bitter and the support situation is horrible.

The average Windows gets 10-12 years of support (XP-2001-2014, Win 7 -2009-2020) so lets split that in half and say...ohh 6 years. Show me ANY free OS that I can either get 6 years worth of patches WITHOUT upgrading or if I must do the upgrade deathmarch show me one that can get 6 years worth of in place upgrades without puking on its own drivers and committing suicide. My users aren't gonna learn bash programming or do forum hunts which are beyond their skillset, so if you think FOSS is ready for the desktop here is your chance. i'm giving you a typical home user with typical requirements, provide them with a working solution that will not end up costing MORE than simply buying a new Windows license. I wish you luck because so far nobody has been willing to step up to the plate.

As for me it looks like I'm gonna have to scramble to find someone who will sell me OEM Win 7 Starter or embrace piracy like many of the other shops because I can't sell machines that are gonna need a wipe and reinstall that may or may not puke on the user' files and settings every 6 months. Don't say it can't either because I have a Linux admin friend that has given up on Linux and is looking at Mac after the last OpenSUSE upgrade puked on her system and wiped out 3 years worth of emails.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Damnshock Member since:
2006-09-15

Haven't you heard of Red Hat linux distro?

Reply Parent Score: 1

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Did you miss the "doesn't cost MORE than Windows" part? RHEL costs MORE than Windows, a LOT more. It costs $299 a year unless you choose "self support" aka forum hunts which is $49 a year. windows 7 HP costs on average $89 and gets you updates until 2020.

You see THIS is the problem folks, there simply isn't a Linux desktop in existence that gives decent QA and reliable updates without costing MUCH more than Windows. There is simply no way to even break even on $140 machines with a $300 a year RHEL license, and if you go CentOS you are right back to forum hunts.

Most home users can NOT tell you the make/model/rev of even one piece in their machines, much less every piece, which means doing forum hunts is right out, and even if you could somehow magically take them to the correct place in the forum (no small task) every single time every time I've gone to the forums the code I've been given is not only CLI (which means a single mistake and its boned) but it has ALWAYS needed to be "tweaked" because it was written for Rev A/firmware B and you have Rev C/firmware D and if it isn't tweaked it doesn't work. this is waaay beyond the skillset of a home user, heck you might as well have told them they need to write their own wireless stack.

Never before in history has Linux had a greater advantage yet once again nobody is gonna step up to the plate so it will pass you by. Users are more than ever using only online apps, the great XP dieoff is placing millions of overpowered desktops and laptops on the market dirt cheap,and MSFT's current pricing makes Windows Home out of the question, yet most of these machines will end up with pirated Windows or thrown in the trash simply because the community refuses to accept Suzy the checkout girl isn't a C programmer in disguise. What she needs is the PC equivalent of a toaster, you push the button it goes. With automatic updates and a decent AV you get that with Windows for a decade at a time, with Linux as I've seen first you'll be lucky if it survives the first 6 month upgrade with 80% functionality.

For those that say Linux is ready for the desktop here is your chance to prove it, we are talking HOME users, not geeks nor programmers, they need a functional system that will last a minimum of 6 years with updates/patches or with upgrades that don't puke on the drivers. these people can NOT do forum hunts, they can NOT use CLI, and the hours of training required to teach them those skills will again push the price higher than the $89 for Windows HP.

I have 4 boxes sitting here with more on the way so i can test your solution and see if it passes a 3 year simulation, so lets hear it, I'm all ears. I'd hate to have to sell these machines to the shop down the road just so he can slap a pirated Win 7 and call it a day, but that is what its looking like I'll have to do because so far all FOSS solutions have failed one or more requirements.

Reply Parent Score: 1

blackjw Member since:
2008-06-25

Don't say it can't either because I have a Linux admin friend that has given up on Linux and is looking at Mac after the last OpenSUSE upgrade puked on her system and wiped out 3 years worth of emails.


Never heard of backups?

Reply Parent Score: 1

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

She HAD backups, that wasn't the point, the point is that OpenSUSE puked on her system and left her with her only home machine hopelessly broken for over a week! When it was done she had NO network, NO wireless, and nothing but single user mode, that's it, nothing but a blinking cursor and no way to Google a solution!

Now if someone who makes their living administrating Linux servers can't even get a desktop to upgrade without it puking what chance does my home users have? I've been building machines since before Windows even existed and I have had to spend days doing forums hunts and tweaking fixes to get a system back up after an upgrade puked, what chance does a user have that doesn't have the skillset to do a step by step troubleshoot on a broken system and who may not have a functional system from which to Google have?

Everyone says "Linux is ready for the desktop" but IME that is ONLY true if someone gives away free lifetime support or if that person is a geek with the skillset required to do serious troubleshooting and administration. Now since i can't afford to give away free lifetime support and my customers are NOT geeks with the skillset required to be admins where does that leave the 99% of the planet just like them? just because YOU think something is easy does NOT mean the rest of the planet would find that easy. i'd say those with the skills to troubleshoot a broken Linux constitute maybe 0.4% of the population and the Linux numbers reflect that.

Give me a distro that will last as long as Windows with updates, or that can upgrade with the GUI without puking and I'll be slapping it on tons of machines. but so far I've tried every "user friendly" distro and ended up with broken messes. I truly wish it wasn't so, because I know these boxes will end up being sold to the shop down the street which will just put pirated Win 7 on them, but I can't sell machines that are gonna be broken in less than a year and I will NOT sell machines with security updates disabled.

Reply Parent Score: 1