Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 26th Jan 2012 22:50 UTC, submitted by kragil
Internet & Networking I promise we'll have more on ACTA next week, but for now, I'm too busy to properly cover the subject. In any case, the European Commission signed it today, but that means little - each individual member state's parliament still has to ratify it, and if one votes against it, it's over. The European Parliament has to accept it too - not a done deal either. My opinion on the matter is clear.
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Well...
by obsidian on Fri 27th Jan 2012 08:55 UTC
obsidian
Member since:
2007-05-12

... three steps forward (with the fight against SOPA), and two steps back with this.

Hopefully one of the countries in Europe will vote against this, thereby sinking ACTA.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Well...
by anda_skoa on Fri 27th Jan 2012 09:53 in reply to "Well... "
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

Hopefully one of the countries in Europe will vote against this, thereby sinking ACTA.


I am putting more hope on the European Parliament.

Each individual country's government is too easy to "persuade" and when the negative aspects of ACTA are finally reaching the population they will just blame the EU as usual.

And influential parties in most member nations have tightly controlled voting procedures, e.g. every member of parliament associated with the same party is told how to vote on certain issues.

This is a lot less problematic on the EU level, since factions in the EU Parliament consist of representatives of parties from all over the place.
The of course share common goals but no centralized control structures or enforcable voting loyalties.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Well...
by darknexus on Sat 28th Jan 2012 05:49 in reply to "RE: Well... "
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

I am putting more hope on the European Parliament.

Each individual country's government is too easy to "persuade" and when the negative aspects of ACTA are finally reaching the population they will just blame the EU as usual.

And influential parties in most member nations have tightly controlled voting procedures, e.g. every member of parliament associated with the same party is told how to vote on certain issues.

This is a lot less problematic on the EU level, since factions in the EU Parliament consist of representatives of parties from all over the place.
The of course share common goals but no centralized control structures or enforcable voting loyalties.


Funny thing is, even being from the US (and not too proud of it at this point) I've never understood the whole party system. Why, exactly, are people too damned afraid to vote what they think, instead of what they're told? Voting only works if people have the guts to do it right, and the party system makes a mockery of the whole process no matter where it's instituted.
edit: typos.

Edited 2012-01-28 05:50 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Well...
by Doc Pain on Sat 28th Jan 2012 18:02 in reply to "RE: Well... "
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

I am putting more hope on the European Parliament.


Maybe put more hope on the individual national states' government. Signing something "in" the EU doesn't imply it's automatically valid for all the states of the EU. Eurpoean right has to be transformed into national right, which might take some time. Time for the people to wake up their "representatives" in the government.

Each individual country's government is too easy to "persuade" and when the negative aspects of ACTA are finally reaching the population they will just blame the EU as usual.


Of course, because people do only receive "EO right" as far as those have become national rights. Some are good, others are plain stupid. No matter which governments you compare, one is more stupid than the other. :-)

And influential parties in most member nations have tightly controlled voting procedures, e.g. every member of parliament associated with the same party is told how to vote on certain issues.


Correct. Furthermore, the political parties are highly influenced by the economy ("lobbying"), even though most of them do deny it. Individuals have no place in this "controlled situation" as they might act deviantly.

Example: In the basic law for the the federal republic of Germany, there's a sentence reading as: "The democratic parties participate in the forming of the political will of the people." Reality is: They are forming that will (or better, they exercise it instead or on behalf on the people). That's why no "higher ranks" in politics are chosen by normal people. It's a thing totally happening within the few parties we have, and those are influences, well... I may say controlled by industry, banking, clerical and economy organisations.

So to come back to the main context: What do you expect to happen? For the loobyists ti give up the "higher good" of profit for more democracy? Ha!

This is a lot less problematic on the EU level, since factions in the EU Parliament consist of representatives of parties from all over the place.
The of course share common goals but no centralized control structures or enforcable voting loyalties.


As I said, I really fear that those representatives in EU parliament already have their "lobby chip" implanted.

Again the question: What do you expect from people who sign a list for having applied a meeting or assemply that didn't even happen, getting several hundred Euros for that, and confronted with their misbehaviour, running away, calling security or simply stating: "I am entitled to." Do not expect them to be any different than national, regional or municipal politicans. They're all (i. e. 99,9% of them) for the "higher good". They do not bite the hand that feeds them candy. Instead, they bite the hand that keeps them alive whenever possible. :-)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Well...
by cyrilleberger on Mon 30th Jan 2012 08:10 in reply to "RE: Well... "
cyrilleberger Member since:
2006-02-01

"Hopefully one of the countries in Europe will vote against this, thereby sinking ACTA.


I am putting more hope on the European Parliament.

Each individual country's government is too easy to "persuade" and when the negative aspects of ACTA are finally reaching the population they will just blame the EU as usual.
"

That might be true, but the government might not be in full control on the validation process. For instance, in France, if ACTA requires a change in the constitution, it would require the agreement of both houses in the parliament, and currently the upper house is controlled by the opposition, and the socialists are usually against the strong anti copyright laws.

The main advantage of a block at the parliament level is that it would block ACTA for all EU countries, instead of just one.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Well...
by Laurence on Fri 27th Jan 2012 10:32 in reply to "Well... "
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

... three steps forward (with the fight against SOPA), and two steps back with this.

I'd say more than 2 steps back as the potential for this could be far more damaging than SOPA.

Not only is this just the start of a global initiative to legislate ACTA worldwide, but it also incorporates active monitoring at the heart of the proposal. This means that you are being watched, regardless of your moral compass and regardless of your intent to pirate; you are still being watched just in case you do.

I swear the MPAA and RIAA are doing a great job at destroying the "innocent until proven guilty" doctrine that we were once proud of.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Well...
by Soulbender on Fri 27th Jan 2012 13:02 in reply to "RE: Well... "
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Come on people, you are forgetting the greater good: profit!
It's all for the greater good.

Reply Parent Score: 2