Linked by David Adams on Tue 31st Jan 2012 23:50 UTC, submitted by Michael
Graphics, User Interfaces This weekend at FOSDEM 2012 what Kristian Hogsberg is expected to say in Brussels will surprise many of you: Wayland 1.0 is gearing up for release as their first stable release. Wayland [a new X server for Linux] is supposed to be ready to take on the Linux desktop world.
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Hope they can deliver
by Invincible Cow on Wed 1st Feb 2012 12:25 UTC
Invincible Cow
Member since:
2006-06-24

I love this. I just hope it can deliver on its goals, which is a tear-free graphics system.

It wouldn't be fun to go through a rough phase of changes across the graphics stack, only to find nothing has changed for the better.

Also, I hope wayland will solve the problem of smooth transitions between bootsplash, login screen and desktop.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Hope they can deliver
by Gullible Jones on Wed 1st Feb 2012 13:26 in reply to "Hope they can deliver"
Gullible Jones Member since:
2006-05-23

The hell with tear-free... I'll settle for a graphics stack that runs decently fast on a typical Pentium II box, and doesn't have a fit when I try to enable 2D acceleration.

When I was an acne-pocked teenager, I thought Linux graphics ought to be perfect. Now I think they ought to be stable and snappy, in that order of importance. If looking more like Windows 2000 than Windows 7 is the price to pay... So be it.

P.S. Windows 2000 was awesome. I have seen it crash once from an incompatible third-party driver, and maybe twice from hardware problems, and that's it. It can run fast on a Pentium II with 128 MB of RAM, and much faster on a higher-end machine. Really a shame it's no longer supported.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Hope they can deliver
by ggeldenhuys on Wed 1st Feb 2012 13:46 in reply to "RE: Hope they can deliver"
ggeldenhuys Member since:
2006-11-13

Win2000.....faster on a higher-end machine. Really a shame it's no longer supported.

+1
The best Windows OS to date! I still run Win2000 on most of my Windows development machines - rock solid babies with light resource usage (unlike todays OSes).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Hope they can deliver
by ggeldenhuys on Wed 1st Feb 2012 13:48 in reply to "Hope they can deliver"
ggeldenhuys Member since:
2006-11-13

I just hope it can deliver on its goals, which is a tear-free graphics system.

I hope so too! The current Linux graphics system and windowing environment is a total joke. I really hope with the fresh start, that Wayland can deliver.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Gullible Jones Member since:
2006-05-23

Unfortunately it seems to me that the graphics situation has gotten even worse lately. Before KMS, you could disable hardware acceleration if you had problems, and things would generally work (albeit with somewhat poorer performance). Now you're stuck with the fbdev driver as a fallback, and IMO it's a pretty trashy fallback - you can't easily change the screen resolution with it, it won't work at all with some configurations (e.g. PPC Macs that require an unaccelerated framebuffer), and IIRC it has serious problems with multiple monitors.

Granted there is a "Shadow" option for Intel now, that's supposed to work like the old "NoAccel" and "ShadowFB"... Last time I tried it, it made Xorg segfault on start.

Compare FreeBSD 9, which still uses XAA/EXA without KMS. Start the X server... Oops, there's a hardware acceleration bug, and everything is slow with a tendency to freeze. Disable hardware acceleration with "NoAccel" and everything works! Damn shame that the Xfce developers decided to ditch HAL support, and automount/power management doesn't work on the BSDs any more.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Hope they can deliver
by bouhko on Wed 1st Feb 2012 15:18 in reply to "RE: Hope they can deliver"
bouhko Member since:
2010-06-24

The drivers are at fault too. Take dual screen for example. For some reason, both Nvidia and ATI choosed to implement their own dual screen stack in their drivers.
As a result, the ATI implementation sucks badly, because what it basically does is simulate a big desktop, so when you maximize a window, it gets maximized across screens.
Enabling xinerama on the ATI drivers solve this, but then I get tearing everywhere and moving a window put my quad-core and my radeon 6950 on its knees...

When I owned a Nvidia card, I had almost the same problem.

So I hope Wayland can offer a better API so driver vendors just implement what's needed and we get a uniform API that apps can use for multiple screens and other things.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Hope they can deliver
by renox on Wed 1st Feb 2012 17:29 in reply to "Hope they can deliver"
renox Member since:
2005-07-06

I love this. I just hope it can deliver on its goals, which is a tear-free graphics system.
I'm not sure that it is the goal..
But to answer your question: it depends!
If wayland is used with its default compositor then a client draw all the window including the decoration so it should be tear-free, this has the cost (a high cost IMHO) that the window may become unresponsive if the client is busy..
KDE plans to use server side decoration, so it will provide responsive windows but not necessarily tear-free.

It wouldn't be fun to go through a rough phase of changes across the graphics stack, only to find nothing has changed for the better.

I think that many issues are caused currently by drivers so wayland won't help here, it could even be worse: new code and new way to use existing code --> new bugs (remember PulseAudio?).

Also, I hope wayland will solve the problem of smooth transitions between bootsplash, login screen and desktop.


Uh? With KMS it should already be a solved issue..
But Wayland will indeed "solve" the issue as it needs KMS to work ;-(

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Hope they can deliver
by tuma324 on Wed 1st Feb 2012 20:50 in reply to "Hope they can deliver"
tuma324 Member since:
2010-04-09

I love this. I just hope it can deliver on its goals, which is a tear-free graphics system.

It wouldn't be fun to go through a rough phase of changes across the graphics stack, only to find nothing has changed for the better.

Also, I hope wayland will solve the problem of smooth transitions between bootsplash, login screen and desktop.


KMS already solves this, but it will be better with Wayland since Wayland actually requires KMS to work.

You also want to avoid using the crappy blobs like "nvidia" and use the open source drivers that support KMS, like Nouveau, Intel or radeon.

The open source drivers have KMS, the blobs don't.

Edited 2012-02-01 21:06 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3