Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 16th Feb 2012 14:46 UTC
Mac OS X Well, this is a surprise. Several websites have a preview up of Apple's next Mac OS X release - it's called Mountain Lion, and continues the trend of bringing over functionality from iOS to Mac OS X. Lots of cool stuff in here we've all seen before on iPhones and iPads, including one very, very controversial feature: Gatekeeper. Starting with Mac OS X 10.8, Apple's desktop operating system will be restricted to Mac App Store and Apple-signed applications by default (with an opt-out switch), following in Windows 8's footsteps.
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RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 16th Feb 2012 15:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

This isn't about how it is today. It's about the path we've headed into.

People called me crazy when I said Apple would eventually include a switch like this. Now people are calling me crazy again? We all know where this is heading: full curation, similar to iOS. If you STILL want to insist there's no sign of this happening... Well, then I'm afraid you're a lost cause.

Like I said - as long as their freedom is taken away in small bits and pieces, people don't give a shit.

Reply Parent Score: 14

RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Thu 16th Feb 2012 15:54 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

This isn't about how it is today. It's about the path we've headed into.

People called me crazy when I said Apple would eventually include a switch like this. Now people are calling me crazy again? We all know where this is heading: full curation, similar to iOS. If you STILL want to insist there's no sign of this happening... Well, then I'm afraid you're a lost cause.

Like I said - as long as their freedom is taken away in small bits and pieces, people don't give a shit.


I would love to know who these 'people are' given that most people I spoke to agree that Apple would enable some sort of way to restrict what can and can't be installed via the use of application bundle signatures but enable people to over ride it. Here we are in 2012 and guess what - the sky hasn't fallen, you can install what ever applications you want and everything is as cool as cucumbers.

You talk about 'taking away freedom bit by bit' - what have they taken away RIGHT NOW! not what could happen in 5 years but RIGHT NOW! not what you believe could happen but is happening RIGHT NOW! I mean, come on, what next, the analogy of the frog in a pot of water being boiled alive? comparisons between Mac OS X, Gatekeeper and goose stepping? I mean come on, the hysteria has all the stupidity associated with the debate in the US over 'Obama Care' and the claim there would be 'death panels' that would push Aunt Pearl off the cliff if her arthritis medication becomes too much! I would have thought you were better than this Thom - I really did.

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[5]: Comment by kaiwai
by Excarnate on Thu 16th Feb 2012 16:02 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai"
Excarnate Member since:
2011-08-01

Kaiwai, since I posted I can't moderate you down, and there isn't a choice for "Forgot to take his lithium".

You are a lost cause, in part because although you read what Thom said, you ignored it and reacted with your gut (oldthinkers unbellyfeel Ingsoc). He said essentially that Gatekeeper is a step toward more control, you want to talk about how it isn't total control RIGHT NOW IN ALL CAPS.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by kaiwai
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 16th Feb 2012 16:04 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

They've taken away the ability for people to stray beyond what Apple approves. Do you really think regular users are going to mess with a scary security setting?

And how do you think regular users become knowledgeable users? Exactly - they become so by venturing beyond the regular capabilities of the software they're using. By trying to stray form the carved path and explore - and large groups of people will now never get to do this exploring because it's locked up behind scary security switches and the like.

I would have never grown up to become a computer geek had I not had the ability to fcuk shit up. We're raising the digital equivalent of padded playground floor kids - you know those new playgrounds with bouncy floors so poor Timmy can't get an auwie when he tumbles off the jungle gym?

We're raising a generation of spoiled digital pussies. Fcuk ups are the best teaching moments.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai
by macUser on Thu 16th Feb 2012 18:05 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai"
macUser Member since:
2006-12-15

This isn't about how it is today. It's about the path we've headed into.

People called me crazy when I said Apple would eventually include a switch like this. Now people are calling me crazy again? We all know where this is heading: full curation, similar to iOS. If you STILL want to insist there's no sign of this happening... Well, then I'm afraid you're a lost cause.

Like I said - as long as their freedom is taken away in small bits and pieces, people don't give a shit.


I'm not particularly fond of the direction Apple has taken with its OS, but most people I know are still terrified of their computers. This is exactly what they want, and while I agree with you that companies like Apple, and Microsoft (and even Google) are seizing too much control, it is something the masses will willingly give up so they don't have to deal with their machines. Most people just aren't interested in the innards of their computers to care. Just like they all drive, but can't explain the difference between a 4 stroke and a 2 stroke engine, or the difference between composite or component video cables, etc.. etc... etc...
Fortunately for those of you who base their bravado on their technical knowledge, there will always be a *nix out there you can do whatever you want with.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: Comment by kaiwai
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 16th Feb 2012 18:07 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

The car analogy doesn't apply. A car does only one thing: go from a to b. That's it. No amount of fiddling is going to change that.

A computer is more than that. It can do a bazillion things, and a computer bought yesterday can be made more useful today just by changing the software.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[5]: Comment by kaiwai
by Alfman on Thu 16th Feb 2012 18:31 in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

macUser,

"I agree with you that companies like Apple, and Microsoft (and even Google) are seizing too much control, it is something the masses will willingly give up so they don't have to deal with their machines. Most people just aren't interested in the innards of their computers to care."

Yes, I can agree with that. However there is a very big difference between designing an OS where users don't need to deal with the guts of the machine to use it (obviously good), and designing an OS where users cannot deal with the guts of the machine should they want to (obviously bad).

Keep in mind, even a technophobe has legitimate reasons to install third party software, and should not have to jump around walled garden hoops to do it.

I would much rather see apple & ms develop better application sandboxes which serve to protect the users from nefarious apps than to see them develop walled gardens which are difficult (and even against terms of use) to circumvent.


"Fortunately for those of you who base their bravado on their technical knowledge, there will always be a *nix out there you can do whatever you want with."

So far, for x86 this still seems to be the case. However I'm not sure there will be any commodity consumer-ready ARM hardware with explicit support for *nix. (Anyone?) ARM hardware with a bundled MS OS on them will be explicitly locked down. Ideally, one shouldn't have to break into one's own machine to program it.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai
by lucas_maximus on Thu 16th Feb 2012 19:08 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

And how are they going to do full curation of something like Adobe CS5?

It is larger than some operating systems and block buster games.

Reply Parent Score: 2