Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 20th Feb 2012 11:22 UTC
Hardware, Embedded Systems No matter where you look these days, there's a profound sense here in the west that the people no longer having any tangible control over what our governments do. Sure, we are allowed to vote every once in a while, but effectively, most of our countries are governed by backroom deals and corporate interests. If matters really do get out of hand, how do we fight this? Well, with technology of course!
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Speak for yourself!!!
by christianhgross on Mon 20th Feb 2012 11:50 UTC
christianhgross
Member since:
2005-11-15

I live in Switzerland and we have direct democracy! So if you feel there is a problem, the answer is not technology! The answer is that the people empower themselves! Transparency while nice results in things like the cones of silence.

And maybe, just maybe... people are voting for things that you don't like. Well then you are just SOL because that is how democracy works as the majority thinks all is great. And if you don't like it, that's just too bad for you.

What disgusts me with these kinds of comments is that it puts the blame on everybody except the VOTER! The government, and its laws are a representation of the people who voted for the government. If you don't like it demonstrate, vote, and create a party.

Fight the system! While I was not part of the 68 generation, at least they had the courage to want to change the system. They were willing to demonstrate peacefully and forced change.

I ask, are you part of the Pirate party? Are you beating the streets asking for people to vote for you? Or are you yet another whiner who says that it is corporations that are in control of everything...

Go away, you insult my intelligence on your political commentary...

BTW it is hard to change the world so I direct you the wisdom Evan Almighty:

God: How do we change the world?
Evan Baxter: One single act of random kindness at a time.
God: [spoken while writing A-R-K on ground with a stick] One Act, of, Random, Kindness.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Speak for yourself!!!
by Brendan on Mon 20th Feb 2012 12:07 in reply to "Speak for yourself!!!"
Brendan Member since:
2005-11-16

Hi,

What disgusts me with these kinds of comments is that it puts the blame on everybody except the VOTER!


If voters are given the choice between a poke in the eye and a punch in the arm; is it fair to blame the voter when one of these options must be chosen?

- Brendan

Reply Parent Score: 14

RE[2]: Speak for yourself!!!
by terrakotta on Mon 20th Feb 2012 12:51 in reply to "RE: Speak for yourself!!!"
terrakotta Member since:
2010-04-21

Yes it is, voters can do more than just vote. It is their/our job to check up on what the government is doing, objecting when necessary by demonstrating (physically or virtually). Idly standing by while things happen to complain afterwards just seams weak and is no way to make the government know they only exist to serve the people instead of the other way around.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Speak for yourself!!!
by Soulbender on Wed 22nd Feb 2012 08:39 in reply to "RE: Speak for yourself!!!"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Why doesn't the voter do more to ensure more choices?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Speak for yourself!!!
by weland on Mon 20th Feb 2012 12:18 in reply to "Speak for yourself!!!"
weland Member since:
2012-02-19

What disgusts me with these kinds of comments is that it puts the blame on everybody except the VOTER!


IMHO, the lack of available choices is hardly something you can blame a voter for...

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Speak for yourself!!!
by Sodki on Mon 20th Feb 2012 13:00 in reply to "RE: Speak for yourself!!!"
Sodki Member since:
2005-11-10

"What disgusts me with these kinds of comments is that it puts the blame on everybody except the VOTER!


IMHO, the lack of available choices is hardly something you can blame a voter for...
"

Not "a" voter, "the" voter. There's a big difference. I can give the example of a small European country, where we have 5 different political parties with parliament seat, with 2 of those being 'the big ones'. For the past decades, government has been rotating between these two big parties, and the results are always the same. But sill people vote for them, as if anything is going to change. So yes, I blame the voter. The truth is that people are easily manipulated. That's why you have the terrorist paranoia in the U.S., and so on.

Reply Parent Score: 13

RE: Speak for yourself!!!
by JAlexoid on Mon 20th Feb 2012 13:24 in reply to "Speak for yourself!!!"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

And you think that direct democracy scales? Or that direct democracy is a good way of preserving freedoms in all scenarios?

The only scalable thing is stupidity - it has no limits.

And obviously there is the Power Distance Index and other cultural differences. But people that preach their beliefs onto others never care about "those silly things"... isn't it right, Mr Preacher?


And in no way I am for the American 2 party system, it's not representative and has more divisions than a multi-party system as a result(conservative/moderate/extreme on both sides).

In short, ideally a meritocracy would be the perfect system of government, but it implies either aristocracy, autocracy or everyone being on the same level of education/intellect. And we get back to the same utopian visions that Marx had about economic systems.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE: Speak for yourself!!!
by ndrw on Mon 20th Feb 2012 13:59 in reply to "Speak for yourself!!!"
ndrw Member since:
2009-06-30

Democracy only works when voters see both the outcome and the cost of government actions. Do you want more welfare? No problem, and BTW here is your bill (taxes). This automatically prevents the government from spending too much and thus from growing too big. This is good, because once government gets too much power it always starts using it for its own benefits and against the voters. Selling its power to large corporations is only one of the symptoms. At some point it becomes big and powerful enough that it can override voters' decisions, either by media or by force.

What we are now suffering from, I think, is the lack of accountability. Governments all over the "western" world are trying to overspend each other going heavily into debt. Debt is such a fantastic tool because voters don't care about it, at least not immediately. The government can spend more, charge less and grow, grow, grow...

That of course wouldn't be possible if developing countries didn't provide us with cheap goods (read: take our inflation away) and at the same time lend us back the money they have just earned. This not only fuels the growth of our governments but it also keeps currency exchange rates unbalanced (if our USD/EUR were going in only one direction - out - that would quickly increase value of the exporters' currencies).

However, I wouldn't blame Saudi Arabia, China or any other country for our tendency of spending more than we have. Ultimately, it was our (government's) choice to borrow and print these money. No one could come to us and force use to borrow money unless we agreed to it.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[2]: Speak for yourself!!!
by Sodki on Mon 20th Feb 2012 14:54 in reply to "RE: Speak for yourself!!!"
Sodki Member since:
2005-11-10

What we are now suffering from, I think, is the lack of accountability. Governments all over the "western" world are trying to overspend each other going heavily into debt.


Yes, completely true. In Europe there is a lot of talk about "austerity" and we've seen a lot of talk about cutting salaries, pensions, etc.. But, on the other side, politicians gave themselves more money, big companies and government management have bigger tax benefits. But the news don't talk about that. It's simply disgusting.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: Speak for yourself!!!
by mkools on Mon 20th Feb 2012 20:25 in reply to "Speak for yourself!!!"
mkools Member since:
2005-10-11

There is one thing you forget, if you look at the USA, all the candidates that run for president are backed by big financial institutions like Goldman Sachs and others.

They decide who will run for president and if the candidate is not suitable for the job because he is against the so called 'elite' they won't back him. If he still gets a lot of votes they will humiliate him and if he still gets elected they will kill him (Kennedy).

You can't vote for the people running these companies so you have nothing to vote for, surely you can vote republican or democrats but not before both candidates went through a full screening by the big financials.

What's even more funny is that you live in Switzerland. Switzerland runs entirely on banks. Banks are the boss in your country, it's Switzerland's nr. 1 export product. All the money the rich Greeks stole from their people is in your banks right now. Hell, all the nazi gold from World War II is still in your banks as well.

Stop making a fool out of yourself by being so naive. You don't have democracy, nobody will ever have democracy as long as the monetary system exists.

Here's a couple of quotes for you:

"Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws.”

Baron M.A. Rothschild

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Especially the last one seems to fit you really well.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[2]: Speak for yourself!!!
by DOSguy on Tue 21st Feb 2012 02:41 in reply to "RE: Speak for yourself!!!"
DOSguy Member since:
2009-07-27

"Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes its laws.”


I agree with the message; Money is power. You might want to avoid using false quotes, though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America:_Freedom_to_Fascism#Alleged_in...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Speak for yourself!!!
by tylerdurden on Mon 20th Feb 2012 21:12 in reply to "Speak for yourself!!!"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17


Go away, you insult my intelligence on your political commentary...


An ironic (or is it hypocritical?) thing to say from someone getting off on lecturing others on how the democratic process supposedly works.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Speak for yourself!!!
by ParadoxUncreated on Tue 21st Feb 2012 00:16 in reply to "Speak for yourself!!!"
ParadoxUncreated Member since:
2009-12-05

That qoute was absolutely horrible. First of all RANDOM kindness? It takes a mind to do anything sane, forget about randomness. And ofcourse the obscurity of Evan vs "God".

Sounds like a pseudobuddhistic statement. Where concepts like "God" and "buddha" is killed, in favor of egolessness. Ofcourse they still have "buddhanature" which equals the real God. GOD of all worlds. To some though particulary people who deal with egolessness "god" is a spirit, and must be defeated. A correct concept of God, makes a quiet and peaceful mind though. But that is dualism, and not pantheism, like many buddhists believe in. Ofcourse if you believe in pantheism, you must make extra effort to kill the unpeace from the misbelief. But standard dualistic teachings, where God, correctly equals the first cause, the transcendent, the paradoxical void, such as in Islam (The Quran, not sectarian), are peaceful.

Peace!

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Speak for yourself!!!
by DOSguy on Tue 21st Feb 2012 03:14 in reply to "Speak for yourself!!!"
DOSguy Member since:
2009-07-27

Fight the system! While I was not part of the 68 generation, at least they had the courage to want to change the system. They were willing to demonstrate peacefully and forced change.


While I agree with most of your comment, you might have to take into account that society has changed a lot. Back in the the days a lot of people took nothing for granted, but we have been spoiled by the riches capitalism has brought us, and although economies around the world seem to be in decline, most of the west isn't really suffering yet. You want demonstrations? Just take a look at Greece, and you'll know when they'll arrive; when it is too late.

'panem et circenses'

God: How do we change the world?
Evan Baxter: One single act of random kindness at a time.
God: [spoken while writing A-R-K on ground with a stick] One Act, of, Random, Kindness.


History teaches us the world rarely changed by people being kind; it mostly happened after spilling blood. Lots of it...

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Speak for yourself!!!
by sicofante on Tue 21st Feb 2012 07:04 in reply to "Speak for yourself!!!"
sicofante Member since:
2009-07-08

I wouldn't brag about my country when its first industry is laundering money for all the criminals on the planet...

Edited 2012-02-21 07:08 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3