Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 24th Feb 2012 17:53 UTC
General Development "In this blog post (and the one that will follow) we'd like to introduce a few of the broad reaching experience improvements that we've delivered in Visual Studio 11. We've worked hard on them over the last two years and believe that they will significantly improve the experience that you will have with Visual Studio."
Thread beginning with comment 508321
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE: Look what we've done
by Hiev on Fri 24th Feb 2012 19:09 UTC in reply to "Look what we've done"
Hiev
Member since:
2005-09-27

Ah, no, You are confusing VS with the .NET Framework, Silverlight and WPF have new features in the recent release, besides, VS it self is build with WPF, so it is silly to think they are killing it, Winforms for the other hand is very active and with the native orientation of Windows 8 it will gain new steam.

And in what in concern to Delphi? really VCL? please. The main problem with the VCL it is that is not compatible between releases, for example, I can use in VS2010 an assembly generated in VS2003 with no problems, Delphi by the other hand, it breaks VCL compatibility with every release, So If I have bpl (the Delphi package equivalent to a .NET assembly) made with Delphi 7, it will not work even on Delphi 8 or 9 or 2010 or the newest.

The blog is short and it doesn't cover all the changes.

Edited 2012-02-24 19:14 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Look what we've done
by arbour42 on Fri 24th Feb 2012 19:27 in reply to "RE: Look what we've done"
arbour42 Member since:
2005-07-06

MS is touting meaningless chrome adjustments to VS 2011, while dumping large frameworks.

MS kills frameworks by simply dropping all marketing of them, which has happened to all 3 of these: SL, WPF, and winforms. Remember, WPF is the replacement to winforms, which has long been deprecated. WPF and SL used to get huge promotions, but now they are completely dead.

The entire MS dev community is completely confused by their direction - it's a complete mess.

As for Delphi, you are complaining about "possibly" having to recompile an EXE with a new release of the VCL, while Microsoft strings programmers along with THREE complete frameworks over a 10 year period, and then dumps all 3?

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Look what we've done
by blahbl4hblah on Fri 24th Feb 2012 19:39 in reply to "RE[2]: Look what we've done"
blahbl4hblah Member since:
2011-05-29

That's slightly hyperbolic. There is a strategy, there is a path forward. The same techniques and languages are used. The complete mess you are talking about is really a non-event. Silverlight is going to be supported for years and new development should be done as WinRT.

Whats the big deal?

C++ devs can now use XAML...so XAML is still a first class ui citizen. So can the dot net languages.

I personally think even desktop app developers should be doing their ui in html and css...but hey.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Look what we've done
by blahbl4hblah on Fri 24th Feb 2012 19:42 in reply to "RE[2]: Look what we've done"
blahbl4hblah Member since:
2011-05-29

And if winforms has been deprecated no one has told the legions of enterprise developers that are still using it.

If your livelihood was actually tied to any of these technologies then you would have done more...shall we say accurate...research.

But keep crying on a message board and one day your favorite Linux distro will finally have its year on the desktop;

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Look what we've done
by gonzo on Fri 24th Feb 2012 21:08 in reply to "RE[2]: Look what we've done"
gonzo Member since:
2005-11-10

While Silverlight is "dead man walking" it will be supported for another ~10 years. So, it is not dead.

And WPF is neither, quite the opposite, it is going to get improved in .NET 4.5.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Look what we've done
by Wafflez on Fri 24th Feb 2012 21:46 in reply to "RE[2]: Look what we've done"
Wafflez Member since:
2011-06-26

As a .NET business software developer I'm dreaming that one day I'll come to work and WinForms will be dead and we'll finally be using XAML for GUI stuff... ;)

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Look what we've done
by Hiev on Fri 24th Feb 2012 22:10 in reply to "RE[2]: Look what we've done"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

Oh no, Im not complaigning about have to recompile the bpl on Delphi with every new release, after all, I have the source, but if I'm using third party bpls w/o the source witch is something usual for Delphi developers you are screwed.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Look what we've done
by Digsbo on Sat 25th Feb 2012 21:23 in reply to "RE[2]: Look what we've done"
Digsbo Member since:
2011-10-04

As part of the MS dev community (and a former Linux/C guy), I disagree in part. The web application framework, ASP.Net, is alive and well, and has a clear direction. The few shops that went with Silverlight are screwed, yes. Front-end native developers, not quite so bad - WPF isn't going anywhere AFAIK, and WinForms is still going to be around for a while, too.

It's clear that VB has been going away for a long time; C# is the premier language on MS platforms and will be for a decade at least.

The only place I have any uncertainty is with deciding whether it will ever make sense to use MS's built-in ORM/database layers, or go with the defacto standard third-party stuff like NHibernate. However, that really only matters with the lightweight CRUD database access, which isn't a problem to code by hand in ADO.Net. For performance reasons, real reporting SQL is going to be done by hand (unless you're using SQL Server Analysis Services and MDX, which is its own beast entirely).

My failure to address other parts of the MS dev world are due to my own ignorance. It seems to me most MS shops are doing C#/ASP.Net in my area (Northeast USA).

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Look what we've done
by snorkel1 on Sat 25th Feb 2012 03:19 in reply to "RE: Look what we've done"
snorkel1 Member since:
2012-02-25

You simply have to recompile and they work fine and dandy
even in XE2 assuming you have the source, and most 3rd party components include the source, and if you doing run time you just have to recompile the package.

Delphi XE2 is really nice and I would take it and the native single exe applications it creates any day over Visual Studio .not.

Most developers simply do not use BPL for run time packages since you can compile everything right into the exe.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Look what we've done
by Hiev on Sat 25th Feb 2012 16:30 in reply to "RE[2]: Look what we've done"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

Even if you don't use the runtime packages the bpls are necessary for compilation, and in some cases, even with the source the migration may not be an easy task, first, with the migration to UTF-8 strings (and if you are using a component that is making calls to an external .dll made in c then good luck with that)
then with the migration to 64 bits integers.

I wish they would be better in this area, just allowing some degree of compatibility between releases.

Edited 2012-02-25 16:33 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Look what we've done
by henderson101 on Tue 28th Feb 2012 21:04 in reply to "RE[2]: Look what we've done"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

You simply have to recompile and they work fine and dandy
even in XE2 assuming you have the source, and most 3rd party components include the source, and if you doing run time you just have to recompile the package.


This is a nice claim, but my experience was that Delphi shops tend to stick on a known good version for years (I was still using Delphi 5 in 2006.) It was never fun getting Delphi 6+ code to compile, but gosh darn it, we did.

Delphi XE2 is really nice and I would take it and the native single exe applications it creates any day over Visual Studio .not.


Delphi was nice, but it doesn't have half the polish that .Net does. Linq and Reflection alone crap all over Delphi as I last used it. The VCL is crumbly and old. It has some serious design flaws, some stuff (BPL) were crap and unreliable.

Most developers simply do not use BPL for run time packages since you can compile everything right into the exe.


You can do this with .net. You can pre Jit it, combine all of the assemblies in to one and even AOT compile it.

Reply Parent Score: 2