Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 24th Feb 2012 17:53 UTC
General Development "In this blog post (and the one that will follow) we'd like to introduce a few of the broad reaching experience improvements that we've delivered in Visual Studio 11. We've worked hard on them over the last two years and believe that they will significantly improve the experience that you will have with Visual Studio."
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RE[2]: Look what we've done
by arbour42 on Fri 24th Feb 2012 19:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Look what we've done"
arbour42
Member since:
2005-07-06

MS is touting meaningless chrome adjustments to VS 2011, while dumping large frameworks.

MS kills frameworks by simply dropping all marketing of them, which has happened to all 3 of these: SL, WPF, and winforms. Remember, WPF is the replacement to winforms, which has long been deprecated. WPF and SL used to get huge promotions, but now they are completely dead.

The entire MS dev community is completely confused by their direction - it's a complete mess.

As for Delphi, you are complaining about "possibly" having to recompile an EXE with a new release of the VCL, while Microsoft strings programmers along with THREE complete frameworks over a 10 year period, and then dumps all 3?

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Look what we've done
by blahbl4hblah on Fri 24th Feb 2012 19:39 in reply to "RE[2]: Look what we've done"
blahbl4hblah Member since:
2011-05-29

That's slightly hyperbolic. There is a strategy, there is a path forward. The same techniques and languages are used. The complete mess you are talking about is really a non-event. Silverlight is going to be supported for years and new development should be done as WinRT.

Whats the big deal?

C++ devs can now use XAML...so XAML is still a first class ui citizen. So can the dot net languages.

I personally think even desktop app developers should be doing their ui in html and css...but hey.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Look what we've done
by blahbl4hblah on Fri 24th Feb 2012 19:42 in reply to "RE[2]: Look what we've done"
blahbl4hblah Member since:
2011-05-29

And if winforms has been deprecated no one has told the legions of enterprise developers that are still using it.

If your livelihood was actually tied to any of these technologies then you would have done more...shall we say accurate...research.

But keep crying on a message board and one day your favorite Linux distro will finally have its year on the desktop;

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Look what we've done
by gonzo on Fri 24th Feb 2012 21:08 in reply to "RE[2]: Look what we've done"
gonzo Member since:
2005-11-10

While Silverlight is "dead man walking" it will be supported for another ~10 years. So, it is not dead.

And WPF is neither, quite the opposite, it is going to get improved in .NET 4.5.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Look what we've done
by Wafflez on Fri 24th Feb 2012 21:46 in reply to "RE[2]: Look what we've done"
Wafflez Member since:
2011-06-26

As a .NET business software developer I'm dreaming that one day I'll come to work and WinForms will be dead and we'll finally be using XAML for GUI stuff... ;)

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Look what we've done
by Hiev on Fri 24th Feb 2012 22:10 in reply to "RE[2]: Look what we've done"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

Oh no, Im not complaigning about have to recompile the bpl on Delphi with every new release, after all, I have the source, but if I'm using third party bpls w/o the source witch is something usual for Delphi developers you are screwed.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Look what we've done
by Digsbo on Sat 25th Feb 2012 21:23 in reply to "RE[2]: Look what we've done"
Digsbo Member since:
2011-10-04

As part of the MS dev community (and a former Linux/C guy), I disagree in part. The web application framework, ASP.Net, is alive and well, and has a clear direction. The few shops that went with Silverlight are screwed, yes. Front-end native developers, not quite so bad - WPF isn't going anywhere AFAIK, and WinForms is still going to be around for a while, too.

It's clear that VB has been going away for a long time; C# is the premier language on MS platforms and will be for a decade at least.

The only place I have any uncertainty is with deciding whether it will ever make sense to use MS's built-in ORM/database layers, or go with the defacto standard third-party stuff like NHibernate. However, that really only matters with the lightweight CRUD database access, which isn't a problem to code by hand in ADO.Net. For performance reasons, real reporting SQL is going to be done by hand (unless you're using SQL Server Analysis Services and MDX, which is its own beast entirely).

My failure to address other parts of the MS dev world are due to my own ignorance. It seems to me most MS shops are doing C#/ASP.Net in my area (Northeast USA).

Reply Parent Score: 1