Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 24th Feb 2012 17:53 UTC
General Development "In this blog post (and the one that will follow) we'd like to introduce a few of the broad reaching experience improvements that we've delivered in Visual Studio 11. We've worked hard on them over the last two years and believe that they will significantly improve the experience that you will have with Visual Studio."
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RE[8]: For C++
by snowbender on Sat 25th Feb 2012 13:23 UTC in reply to "RE[7]: For C++"
snowbender
Member since:
2006-05-04

Uh... You consider me an IDE fanboi?

Oh well... for the record, I just don't agree with your point of view that Microsoft development environments are "top notch". And I'm just giving you arguments to support my point of view.

But well.. it's easier to call someone a fanboi instead of giving arguments to support your view.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[9]: For C++
by tylerdurden on Sat 25th Feb 2012 22:30 in reply to "RE[8]: For C++"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Technically, you did not give "arguments," what you gave were some heavily biased "opinions."

Oh, and I also said that I don't care that much for microsoft products. I tend not to use them for my personal needs. So I find your accusations rather ironic, and perhaps driven by projection.

From a C++ development standpoint, VisualStudio is indeed top notch. Period. Esp. If you are developing a large scale application with a large team on Windows.

I would have taken you seriously if you had not used Eclipse as an example of excellence. Let me guess, by "coming from a Java background" you mean you just graduated school.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[10]: For C++
by ba1l on Sun 26th Feb 2012 01:12 in reply to "RE[9]: For C++"
ba1l Member since:
2007-09-08

From a C++ development standpoint, VisualStudio is indeed top notch. Period. Esp. If you are developing a large scale application with a large team on Windows.


I disagree, but I suspect that I may have a very different focus than you. I neither need nor want all the ancillary tools. I just need a tool I can use to work with the code.

For me, it comes down to the editor. Visual Studio's editor sucks - it's extremely simplistic, and most of the extra bells and whistles (like autocompletion) really don't work well enough, or provide enough benefit over a really good text editor, to be worth the hassle.

Yes, I know that most of this is because C++ is a very difficult language to write tools for. That's really no excuse though - other tools, much newer and built with far fewer resources than Visual Studio, have managed far better.

I would have taken you seriously if you had not used Eclipse as an example of excellence. Let me guess, by "coming from a Java background" you mean you just graduated school.


For C++, Eclipse isn't very good. Granted.

However, for Java, Eclipse is far, far better than Visual Studio is for C#. So is NetBeans, and especially IntelliJ IDEA.

If you want a point of comparison - Resharper for Visual Studio was written by the same guys who made IDEA (a Java IDE). The idea was to bring features from IDEA into Visual Studio, presumably so they didn't have to write their own .Net IDE as well.

The features that Resharper adds are standard in IDEA, and are generally found in Eclipse and NetBeans as well.

No need to get angry at the guy, by the way. He actually sounds like he's done a lot of Java development, and was surprised by how primitive Visual Studio was in comparison. So was I, especially considering the glowing reputation that Visual Studio has.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[10]: For C++
by snowbender on Sun 26th Feb 2012 11:04 in reply to "RE[9]: For C++"
snowbender Member since:
2006-05-04

Ok, I cannot comment on how good Visual Studio is for C++ development, since I've only used it for C# development.

The things I miss in Visual Studio (which I thought are "basic", coming from Eclipse) might all be small things, and not useful to everyone; but i've just been frustrated enough with Visual Studio to not agree with the "top notch". ;) I refuse to use Visual Studio without ReSharper. I suppose the situation is different for C++ development.

Coming straight from college? Not really. I went to university in 1995, about the time Java came out and before it was the standard programming language to teach. My first programming language at university was actually Scheme. As a graduate thesis, I (together with a friend) implemented a complete Prolog system in Java (using nedit+javac on linux). Then I worked on a phd on garbage collection in the context of Prolog. This was an implementation in C (using emacs+gcc+gdb on linux). Then in 2007 I went to work for a fairly small software company. From 2007-2009 I did mainly java enterprise development (java ee 1.4 and jee5, using eclipse and later netbeans). From 2009 till now I did mainly .NET development (.NET 3.5, WCF, a bit of BizTalk, using Visual Studio 2008 + ReSharper 5 and 6), and a bit of Java development (eclipse rcp application, development in eclipse). I like to think I'm pretty good at what I do and I like to think I know what I'm talking about.

Maybe my comment sounded more like a rant or maybe it seemed I'm just whining, but it's a genuine comment. I'm really not that impressed by Visual Studio and don't consider it "top notch", but that's coming from a C# context. And it is based on actual usage and experience.

Reply Parent Score: 5