Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 24th Feb 2012 21:59 UTC
Multimedia, AV An interesting anecdote at MinimalMac about television being broken. The author's young daughter, who is growing up in a Netflix/Hulu/iTunes/etc. household, was confronted with actual TV for the first time, and wonders why she can't pick what to watch, why the shows are being interrupted all the time, and so on. Clearly - TV is broken.
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RE[5]: DVD Quality
by ilovebeer on Sun 26th Feb 2012 16:52 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: DVD Quality"
ilovebeer
Member since:
2011-08-08

If you play a 720x480 DVD back on a 1080p LCD/Plasma HDTV, it WILL be resized/upscaled to 1920x1080 whether you like it or not. Again, it is not about improving quality, it is about avoiding image degradation in the TV's scaling circuitry.

It seems that you and my high-end Panasonic plasma tv are in disagreement about this. For that matter, no hdtv I have ever owned forces scaling. In all of them, scaling was optional. Do you even own an hdtv?

Your TV can do the scaling, or maybe you have an upconverting DVD player, in which case it will do the scaling - but something will be scaling the video - LCDs and Plasmas are fixed resolution devices.

They are fixed-pixel displays. However, you are wrong by assuming that this means all non 1920x1080 images are scaled up to 1920x1080. Apparently you don't understand that no scaling in required to display x 544x480 image on a 1080p display. There are two surfaces that are combined to create the final image -- the video surface, and non-video surface. The non-video surface is always the native resolution while the video surface can be anything up to the native resolution. Scaling the video surface is optional in every 1080p tv I've seen or owned.

If you TV has shitty scaling circuitry the quality of the image on your TV will be degraded badly ( blocking artifacts, tearing during scene changes, ringing, etc.). Transcoding the video prior to sending it to your TV using a a high quality interpolation routine (Lanczos4 or something similar) will improve the quality of the image on your TV, often dramatically. Yes, it does degrade the image relative to the source in a mathematical sense (badly at that), but on YOUR TV with shitty scaling circuitry it will look better.

You're confused as to what this conversation is about and what the OP said. We are NOT talking about comparing real-time upscaled material vs. a pre-processed version. Aside of that, you still have a few things wrong. Image degredation/malformation is UNAVOIDABLE regardless of your output device. As I've already said, there is no such thing as a magical algorithm. And, I don't own crap tv's.

In other words it is stupid to compare the quality of an 1080p transcode of a DVD to the original source material in a purely mathematical sense, because you never in fact get to see the original on an HDTV - it is always resized.

You are wrong as already explained above. (see reference to surfaces)

What you are comparing is the quality of a realtime scaling routine in the TV/DVD players circuitry to the scaling routine used during transcoding (which can be much more complex/accurate because it doesn't have to work in realtime). If you TV has bad scaling performance the transcode will almost certainly look better on your TV.

This is exactly what I said before, it is absolutely accurate, and I have no idea how you can claim otherwise.

No kidding most real-time internal tv scalers can be outperformed by more advanced software counterparts. But we aren't even talking about that so, ....

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: DVD Quality
by galvanash on Sun 26th Feb 2012 18:18 in reply to "RE[5]: DVD Quality"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

It seems that you and my high-end Panasonic plasma tv are in disagreement about this. For that matter, no hdtv I have ever owned forces scaling. In all of them, scaling was optional. Do you even own an hdtv?


No, they generally don't force scaling, but almost all default to it. Most people don't like watching a DVD using only 25% of their screen... In fact almost no one wants to watch a DVD this way, it reduces your usable screen size to the point that you have to reduce your viewing distance to compensate. I thought that was obvious and didn't need to be said...

Hey, if you like watching movies that way good for you - but it is painfully obvious I was not talking about that and you bringing it up is a red herring...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[7]: DVD Quality
by ilovebeer on Mon 27th Feb 2012 04:19 in reply to "RE[6]: DVD Quality"
ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

No, they generally don't force scaling, but almost all default to it. Most people don't like watching a DVD using only 25% of their screen... In fact almost no one wants to watch a DVD this way, it reduces your usable screen size to the point that you have to reduce your viewing distance to compensate. I thought that was obvious and didn't need to be said...

First you claim the upscaling "WILL" happen "whether you like it or not". Now you concede that it's optional. Now you're claiming to know what most people prefer -- another mistake on your part. I know several people who PREFER watching content in it's native format for a couple simple reasons -- 1) they don't want to sacrifice quality, and 2) they don't want a skewed aspect ratio, or correct aspect ratio at the expense of losing a lot of the frame. This is exactly why scaling is OPTIONAL. And btw, of all the hdtv's I've owned, none came with scaling as the default behavior.

Hey, if you like watching movies that way good for you - but it is painfully obvious I was not talking about that and you bringing it up is a red herring...

The only red herrings here is all the nonsense you keep making up. What's becoming painfully obvious is that you don't care about being accurate or the truth, you just seem to want attention.

Reply Parent Score: 2