Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 7th Mar 2012 22:59 UTC
Apple And it was that time of the year again - Apple held one of its product announcements. This one focussed on the iPad mostly, and while some will call it a disappointment merely because virtually everything had already been leaked, I'm still in awe over the fact the newly announced iPad has a 2048x1536 display. My mind is blown.
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RE[6]: Not interesting
by phoenix on Thu 8th Mar 2012 23:19 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Not interesting"
phoenix
Member since:
2005-07-11

IOW, since (some) people can't be bothered to organise their files, we should remove all capabilities to organise files? How backward is that.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[7]: Not interesting
by galvanash on Fri 9th Mar 2012 05:11 in reply to "RE[6]: Not interesting"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

IOW, since (some) people can't be bothered to organise their files, we should remove all capabilities to organise files? How backward is that.


I know I'll get modded down, but what the hell...

There are historically two common interface paradigms in GUI design - document centric and application centric. In document centric systems centralized file management is not only desirable, but pretty much mandatory - you need some kind of generalized file management UI.

Almost all GUIs in common use combine both systems at the same time. iOS on the other hand is completely application centric - it was designed to work that way.

Whether you like it or not, adding file management to an application centric UI corrodes it - the whole point is to avoid it entirely. It is a trade-off. It simplifies things for the user dramatically because, if done right, file management simply becomes unnecessary.

Is iOS done right? it certainly has its flaws... But at this point if Apple breaks down and implements a "Finder" on iOS, they may as well admit defeat. I'm not saying there aren't things that need to be fixed to improve usability, but adding file management is the last thing they should be doing. That's like adding a steering wheel to a train - once you do it you no longer have a train...

I'm just saying, it's not backwards - its simply different. You may not think it is better, but some people at least think it can be better if done right.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[8]: Not interesting
by pandronic on Fri 9th Mar 2012 06:55 in reply to "RE[7]: Not interesting"
pandronic Member since:
2006-05-18

Well, first of all, Apple makes things more and more simple, to attract an increasing number of people, clueless about computing, to their products. But, what is good for the clueless is really bad for people who do have a clue and will quickly feel the limits of Apple's paradigm. What's even worse is that other manufacturers see the piles of cash that Apple is gathering and want a piece of that. So, they start to copy Apple's closed world. If this trend continues, I believe that in a few years there won't be any devices that are not dumbed down appliances.

Of course, if you let people do a few very specific things, while holding their hand, you'll be able to provide them with a highly specialized tool that does those things very well, but then don't sell said specialized tool as a general computing device, because it isn't, it's just a device that can do a limited number of tasks, in a carefully selected and limited, number of ways.

It's like if you had a kid and you'd tie him with a leash to a cable that ran to only a few nearby places in town. Of course, he won't get lost and nothing bad will happen to him, because you carefully selected the route the cable will follow, but what life would that be?

And now back to the app centric paradigm ... I think it sucks, compared to the document centric one, no matter how good it's implemented. It sucks, because it emphasizes the mean and not the purpose. As a user, I shouldn't care about the tool I use (of course, Apple hypes users into caring), I should care that I need to do something. In fact that's how the real world works. Imagine all the nails tied to certain brand of hammer, all the planks tied to a special saw etc. It's madness.

I've not used the iDevices much, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that a lot of apps reinvent file management in their own little bubble and their own different way. So you might see an app that doesn't group it's documents at all, one that uses folders, one that uses tags and so on ... In a way they still do file management, but crippled and limited. The classic approach is clearly more flexible and consistent, but, sure, it gives the user the opportunity to mess things up.

Which brings us to the point that Nefer was trying to make - that the app centric approach saves people from their own messiness and I would add ... stupidity (when it comes to computing). I'd argue that helping people to persist in their ignorance will no help them. Sure, it may make you a lot of money if your name is Apple. And let's not forget that not all people are stupid, unwilling to learn or clueless about technology. What they are doing is lowering the bar even for those people and in time you might even see them disappear, because considering the current trends, there might not be a place where they can manifest themselves.

Which brings me to the conclusion ... an user oriented software ecosystem should be about the tasks and documents, because that's what the user needs and focuses on, while Apple's ecosystem is about the apps, the tools, because that's what Apple (and soon Microsoft) focuses on - to sell more of them. I'll go with the user, instead of the money-hungry corporation any day.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[8]: Not interesting
by _txf_ on Fri 9th Mar 2012 12:11 in reply to "RE[7]: Not interesting"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

I'm just saying, it's not backwards - its simply different. You may not think it is better, but some people at least think it can be better if done right.


Nah...It is different and worse. Just like the one button mouse or the puck ...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[8]: Not interesting
by softdrat on Sat 10th Mar 2012 00:21 in reply to "RE[7]: Not interesting"
softdrat Member since:
2008-09-17

There are historically two common interface paradigms in GUI design - document centric and application centric.

For that matter, IBM's Job Control Language for OS/360 on mainframes was also application centric, even though it didn't have a GUI - just punched cards. Want to delete a file? You have to run an app. That is why IEFBR14 was invented.

So I guess you can say that iOS is the JCL of the post-PC world!

Reply Parent Score: 1