Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 16th Mar 2012 19:47 UTC
In the News "This American Life has retracted an episode that focused on working conditions inside a Foxconn iPad factory, calling the source material 'partially fabricated'. The episode - the most popular in TAL history with nearly a million streams - was partially based on the work of artist Mike Daisey, who apparently lied to fact-checkers about his experiences visiting Foxconn's facility. Some of the lies were discovered during an interview with Daisey's Chinese translator, who disputed the facts presented in his show and on the air."
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RE[2]: Comment by ilovebeer
by Tony Swash on Sun 18th Mar 2012 14:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by ilovebeer"
Tony Swash
Member since:
2009-08-22

""Apple, this is your problem to fix"


No it's not their problem but nothing Tony said justifies Apple exploiting the workers. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem and Apple (and other companies doing this) are not part of the solution.
"

Rubbish. How could western companies boycotting China help anyone?

Ridiculous and vacuous moral posturing (with a dash of iPhobia thrown in for spice) is no substitute for engaging in a real analysis of the real world which often awkwardly reveals that the problems are complex and the solutions elusive and certainly not quick.

What seems to be missing is any acknowledgement of some basic facts:

a) The conditions of workers in factories making components for Apple are better than average.

b) Jobs in factories such as those run by Foxconn are are hugely sought after because they offer a better standard of living and better life opportunities than the alternatives.

c) The development of modern competitive industrial production in China, as exemplified by companies like Foxconn, has very significantly raised the GDP and standard of living of the Chinese.

d) All of the outrage whipped up around the issue of the conditions of workers in Apple's Chinese supply chain has, it turns out, been based on deliberate lies.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by ilovebeer
by Soulbender on Sun 18th Mar 2012 14:39 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by ilovebeer"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

(with a dash of iPhobia thrown in for spice)


Where did I mention the iPhone?

a) The conditions of workers in factories making components for Apple are better than average.


Better than average does not mean that it's actually good.

c) The development of modern competitive industrial production in China, as exemplified by companies like Foxconn, has very significantly raised the GDP and standard of living of the Chinese


Raised by how much and for whom? China has had industrial production of cheap stuff for ages. When I was a kid in the 70's most toys was already manufactured in China.
Many, many factories (maybe not Foxconn) treats their employees terribly bad. Having lived in Asia for 10+ years and worked for companies with manufacturing in China I can say that the conditions for many (probably most) workers is so horrible it's hard to believe.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by ilovebeer
by Kivada on Sun 18th Mar 2012 16:37 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by ilovebeer"
Kivada Member since:
2010-07-07

Your fanboism is showing mate, take it from me, I've been an Apple lover since the IIe, but the Apple of today isn't the company I remember.

Apple has the pull to force Foxconn to improve their working conditions and pay, but they don't as they'd rather just pocket the excess profits in massive executive bonuses. You didn't see these kinds of situations back when the US economy was booming, the reason is simple, back when things where made in the US we had a very high marginal top marginal tax rate which caused the executives to not take the companies profits for themselves but to invest that money into expanding their company and strong employee unions that forced non union companies to at least come close to matching pay and working conditions in their shops by setting the bar so high at the companies they where at, if the US government hadn't started slashing top tax rates and union busting we where on track to have a 4 day work week by the 90's.

Now you may ask, WTF does that have to do with China? Well it has everything to do with China, in our current state of affairs china is the world's dumping ground for slave labor, sure the average quality of life in China has increased due to this, but it's nowhere near what it should be as the increase is due to the fact that they had a surplus of people and a shortage of jobs, in that situation any job is an improvement to your quality of life, but unless the Chinese government steps in somewhere this will plateau, especially if we in the west keep taking these economic hits we eventually wont be able to buy iPads anymore and the Chinese will essentially be back where they started.

If I had to guess though, the Chinese government, not being stupid realizes that they have the ability to crush the world if they can build out their infrastructure and and with it their economy, they already have all the factories and tech on the planet, it wouldn't be too hard to strong arm the rest or the world into what they want with a trade war in the next few years, they only need to be built out to the point that the Chinese people can keep their own economy afloat while they hammer the rest of the world's economies harder then they currently do.

Reply Parent Score: 4