Linked by fran on Tue 27th Mar 2012 22:24 UTC
Legal "Linus Torvalds just can't help but be a thorn in Microsoft's side. First, he created an open source project that completely upset Microsoft's business model. And now, he has helped shoot down an important Microsoft patent in Redmond's crusade to wring licensing dollars out of Google Android and other versions of Linux."
Thread beginning with comment 512106
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE[5]: Not so fast
by einr on Wed 28th Mar 2012 06:39 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Not so fast"
einr
Member since:
2012-02-15

Fragmented Environments.

You mean like the Metro start screen vs. the traditional desktop, neither of which can run each other's programs, in Windows 8?

You mean like how I can boot up Windows 7 right now, start five different Microsoft-supplied programs, and find five completely different UI:s?

Ribbon here, toolbar there. Menus? No menus? Who knows! XP this, Windows 3.1 that, and oh look, Windows Media Player has a custom bitmap skin! And so does Outlook! And wow, this new Visual Studio sure looks like NO OTHER WINDOWS APP. Cool!

It gets even worse if we're including commonly used things like Photoshop and Firefox, which draw their own widgets and ignore many OS conventions. Or how about anti-virus? There are a trillion anti-virus apps, but is there ONE that adheres to the Windows UX guidelines?

So: I'm going to say with a straight face that my XFCE/GTK based desktop is much cleaner and more consistent across applications. I couldn't say that ten years ago, when Windows looked better and Linux looked worse, but there it is. Windows in 2012 is an UI fragmentation disaster on a level unheard of, and it's only going to get worse in 8.

Reply Parent Score: 27

RE[6]: Not so fast
by lucas_maximus on Wed 28th Mar 2012 07:09 in reply to "RE[5]: Not so fast"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

If you happen to use XFCE and XFCE apps it is consistent.

And as everything being not consistent on Windows o'rly ...

http://i.imgur.com/fpGQ4.jpg

HMM lots of common UI between applications.

Up until the release of 8 the Windows UI has worked exactly the same as it did from Windows 95 with some minor changes in 7 with the taskbar.

If AV programs and the new Metro interface is all you can really bring up than tbh you are just grabbing the lowest hanging fruit.

Even if the UI was the problem (It isn't).

There are soo many damn forks of what is exactly the same thing. Sooo many other problems and most of the development money is being put into server not the desktop.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Not so fast
by einr on Wed 28th Mar 2012 07:34 in reply to "RE[6]: Not so fast"
einr Member since:
2012-02-15

Right in that screenshot: why does Task Manager have a different menu bar than Visual Studio, to begin with? What's with the orange Firefox menu in the top left; what guidelines of anything ever does THAT conform to?

I'd adress some other things, particularly with Visual Studio, but what you've taken a picture of is close to a best-case scenario so I'm not going to bother. Instead, I'm going to play your game and pull up some other common apps:

http://i.imgur.com/Sg5LH.jpg

Let's see what we have here:
* Security Essentials draws its own UI that looks like... I don't even know.
* Outlook draws not only its own widgets that do not conform to the system theme, but even its own title bar and close/minimize/maximize buttons
* So does Photoshop (whose UI is a mess of Flash and other non-compliant random stuff that looks more like Mac OS 7 than anything)
* The standard colour picker is still identical to the one in Windows 3.0 (1989) -- note the font. MS Sans Serif.
* Log viewer has toolbars and XP-style icons & layout. And where do these gradients come from exactly?
* Paint has ribbons that do not honour system colour/style settings
* You can have fun counting the number of different UI fonts used if you want! I spot at least Segoe UI, MS Sans Serif, Tahoma, and that Adobe UI font. Can you find more?!

This is a MESS. It looks like GARBAGE.

Edited 2012-03-28 07:37 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 15

RE[6]: Not so fast
by WorknMan on Wed 28th Mar 2012 08:13 in reply to "RE[5]: Not so fast"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

You mean like the Metro start screen vs. the traditional desktop, neither of which can run each other's programs, in Windows 8?


Yes, that's exactly what he means. Windows 8 is a huge clusterf**k of an OS, and if there was any time for Linux to make some headway, it would be now. Unfortunately, there is no 'Linux'. There's only 900 different distros all competing with each other. If all these distro makers would combine their efforts and make a nice, cohesive experience, where ALL apps work under one or two distros, using ONE desktop environment to rule them all, they could probably carve out a nice chunk of the desktop for themselves. Unfortunately, they either clearly do not want this to happen, or just lack the vision to make it happen.

I don't know what Linux Evangelists expect to happen on the desktop, but whatever the case, they've done little to nothing up to this point, and I don't see any rabbits being pulled out of hats. If MS loses market share to anyone, it'll probably either be to tablets like the iPad, or to OSX. On the desktop, Linux is a joke. A great OS with all kinds of potential, but way too many cooks in the kitchen, and no unified direction whatsoever.

Edited 2012-03-28 08:15 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[7]: Not so fast
by einr on Wed 28th Mar 2012 08:47 in reply to "RE[6]: Not so fast"
einr Member since:
2012-02-15

I had a larger reply going, but I don't think it is worth posting. These are common arguments, and while I can understand them I have a hard time relating to them personally, so I'm just going to address this little gem:

they've done little to nothing up to this point

Really? You're going to claim this? When I started using Linux on the desktop (1998-ish,) it was pretty gosh-darn bad and often looked much like this:

http://fvwm95.sourceforge.net/screenshot-full.gif
http://xwinman.org/screenshots/fvwm95-daBorg.gif

There has been a LOT of progress, and although I personally think some of the newer developments are detrimental (Unity, GNOME 3, the pulseaudio mess), consistency and usability of the Linux desktop now is lightyears beyond what it was even five or ten years ago.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Not so fast
by Gone fishing on Wed 28th Mar 2012 15:05 in reply to "RE[6]: Not so fast"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

Unfortunately, there is no 'Linux'. There's only 900 different distros all competing with each other. If all these distro makers would combine their efforts and make a nice, cohesive experience ...


You really don't seem to get it the distro's are the OSes and Linux a kernel. There is no reason why they should all join together and would be worse off if they did. It is good that you can use Parted Magic for partition/disk management, Ubuntu on the Desktop or Mint or Fedora and Backtrack for penetration testing or Android on a phone/pad. This is good and something you can't do in Windows.

I don't know what Linux Evangelists expect to happen on the desktop, but whatever the case, they've done little to nothing up to this point [...] A great OS with all kinds of potential, but way too many cooks in the kitchen, and no unified direction whatsoever.


Wrong - Linux on the desktop has come a long way over the last few years KDE is a very good Desktop and whatever one thinks of Unity, Ubuntu and Canonical certainly are heading in a determined direction and has a unified vision of what it wants. It does make me wonder if you have used Linux in the last five years

Ubuntu etc are not simply distro's they are OSes

Reply Parent Score: 6