Linked by Howard Fosdick on Fri 30th Mar 2012 20:33 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Two years ago, Linux guru Caitlyn Martin argued that "Ubuntu is a Poor Standard Bearer for Linux" due to reliability issues. She said that "Other distributions have problematic releases but other major distributions do not have significant problems in nearly every release. Ubuntu does." In her follow-up piece "How Canonical Can Do Ubuntu Right: It Isn't a Technical Problem," she explained how "...the problem I am describing is probably rooted in policy or business decisions that have been made..." and she offered specific ideas on how Canoncial could address the situation. Are these criticisms valid today? Does Ubuntu offer good reliability? Does it deserve its mindshare as the representative of PC Linux?
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RE[3]: Guru Schmuru
by Alfman on Mon 2nd Apr 2012 03:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Guru Schmuru"
Member since:


"As a retailer... Here is a list of hardware that must not ever break, if it does, no excuses as we do NOT want to hear them, then you have failed: Realtek sound, SiS NIC, Sigmatel Sound, Via HD Audio, all AMD/Nvidia/Intel chips that are over a year old. This is the list of hardware that is in over 90% of PCs out there so if it breaks you have broken more machines than you can even imagine."

You pick up hardware from your suppliers without any commercial linux support, then go download a consumer distro ISO freely from the web with no warranty or support, and then turn around and resell the system to your customers, and after all that you're not willing to support them yourself when something stops working?

Couple things to say here: as a retailer, if your not purchasing linux support from elsewhere, then the onus is technically on *you* to make the assurances that the hardware you sell is compatible with the OS you bundle. If you are not technically able to support the OS/hardware yourself, then you really should be purchasing corporate support from a vendor who can, like red hat.

Maybe you'd rather not purchase support and at the same time you'd rather not provide support yourself? Well in that case maybe you need to tell your users that you will sell linux systems like they want, but won't provide support for it.

Even MS avoids making the kinds of guaranties your asking of Linux distros. I'm not going to make excuses for poor Q/A practices, but if you want guaranties about linux support, you need to be pressuring your hardware vendors to provide it. If they won't then you need to look for alternatives who will. If enough resellers like you start to demand official linux support, eventually they'll all agree to provide it and linux devs will no longer have to reverse engineer windows drivers to achieve compatibility, which would be a win for everyone.

Edited 2012-04-02 03:17 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: Guru Schmuru
by bassbeast on Tue 3rd Apr 2012 04:02 in reply to "RE[3]: Guru Schmuru"
bassbeast Member since:

You sir just failed...did you catch it? Here i'll highlight it...without any commercial linux support You see you have just failed right there because the only commercially supported linux hardware is in workstations which cost MORE than Windows by a long shot. so why should I use your product?

Sell it to me, i'm your customer, give me a reason. Its not price, Windows Home is $89 and one driver hunt will make that seems cheap, its not 'free as in freedom' because honestly? we don't care, we really don't. if we cared we wouldn't be buying ipads and iphones now would we?

You see THIS, this right here, is why Linux is doomed to be dead last on the desktop. in its current form there simply is NO selling point. All you get when you point out problems is either excuses or "answers" that cost more than Windows. To use a car analogy linux is like that 74 dodge sitting in a field. if you spend you weekends tweaking and fiddling, learn all about its guts and design, then you can make it into a nice car, a hot rod even. but the masses aren't gonna waste their time doing this, they won't. so they buy a nice new car where everything "just works".

But go ahead, sell it to me, give me a single reason why your OS is better than Windows, not from a religious or philosophical standpoint, but something that Joe the plumber would actually care about, or something that would make a retailer like me care.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Guru Schmuru
by Alfman on Tue 3rd Apr 2012 05:49 in reply to "RE[4]: Guru Schmuru"
Alfman Member since:


"You sir just failed...did you catch it? Here i'll highlight it...without any commercial linux support"

It's completely unrealistic to expect any of the free distro's we're talking about to pay for and provide fail-proof support on behalf of 3rd party hardware vendors. It's absolutely preposterous.

Who pays for windows hardware certification? You guessed it, it's the hardware vendors themselves. Furthermore, microsoft's HCL certification requires that the *hardware vendor* commits to provide end user support. Microsoft will update the drivers in windows update, but it's responsibility ends there.

"With certification comes a commitment to the end user of product support for the reasonable lifetime of the product. The Windows Certification Program provides services to make this commitment possible through access to field telemetry and the ability to certify driver fixes and deliver them to end users."

So, in order to come in line with your expectations, a linux distro would have to pay out of their own funds to certify and support 3rd party hardware. Keep in mind that microsoft doesn't even provide this level of support itself. Truth be told, linux compatibility *as is* is usually even better than windows out of the box, which is pretty damned impressive. But if you want commercial grade support and certification, you're going to have to pay for it one way or another.

But man you really top the cake when you expect a linux distro to provide commercial 3rd party hardware support to *your customers*.

Like I said before, the solution to this is for people/retailers like you to demand linux support from vendors. However from the tone of the rest of your post I get the distinct impression that you don't even care about linux support, you are just trying to justify your decision to be a windows user. That's really not necessary, your preference for windows doesn't bother me at all.

Linux is not ready to take over microsoft's lion's share of the desktop, I never claimed it was. In particular it's missing alot of commercial software that businesses use. But I do think it's ready to take over several more percent. And with increased interest from vendors, that will serve to help improve linux even further.

Edited 2012-04-03 05:50 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2