Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 16th Apr 2012 08:26 UTC
Internet & Networking "The principles of openness and universal access that underpinned the creation of the internet three decades ago are under greater threat than ever, according to Google co-founder Sergey Brin. The threat to the freedom of the internet comes, he claims, from a combination of governments increasingly trying to control access and communication by their citizens, the entertainment industry's attempts to crack down on piracy, and the rise of 'restrictive' walled gardens such as Facebook and Apple, which tightly control what software can be released on their platforms." That governments - east and west - are trying to destroy the open web, that we know. As for Facebook and Apple... Well, all I know is that it is completely and utterly impossible to check what information Apple has about you. Unlike Google (more here) and to a lesser degree Facebook, Apple provides zero means to see, export, or delete the information they have on you, associated with your Apple ID or otherwise. In 2012, that's just sinister.
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RE: hypocrisy, thy name is Brin
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 16th Apr 2012 14:04 UTC in reply to "hypocrisy, thy name is Brin"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

About apple this really doesn't make a lot of sense. Apple is not in the business of data mining and does no money from advertising ((don't really count the invisible/tiny business of iAds )). Apples does its money the old fashion way: it sells you products that you want to buy.


Apple uses that data to better understand how to extract money from you. Google does it to better understand how to extract money from advertisers. I don't see the difference.

What was sinister for me was discovering my google record in google's dashboard somewhere in 2008/2009 and discovering that they had recorded everything i ever searched since 2004. You could pretty much make a day-to-day picture of me just by following their records.


If it dated back that far, then you turned the tracking feature on yourself. Only very recently did Google turn it on by default for NEW ACCOUNTS ONLY. In other words, you willingly turned it on, and now you;re complaining? Even though you can see all the info and delete it?

Cry me a river.

Reply Parent Score: 4

maccouch Member since:
2012-03-14

"Apple uses that data to better understand how to extract money from you. Google does it to better understand how to extract money from advertisers. I don't see the difference. "

Untill now i have seen no such behaviour from apple. nor any proofs of it. Again, not saying that i can't happen, just saying that, in the present, i don't think that is credible.

"Only very recently did Google turn it on by default for NEW ACCOUNTS ONLY. In other words, you willingly turned it on, and now you;re complaining? Even though you can see all the info and delete it? "

That's not true. I did no enabling. The only thing i did do, was browsing the web and doing search on google.com WHILE logged in to my gmail account. Something that i actually never thought was "wrong".

And the whole "info deletion" considering Google is rather suspicious to me. This is the company that set up gmail to not erase your email messages when deleted by an imap client but rather "archive them". This is the company that still keeps your email messages on their servers even though you set up "forward and delete on receival". This is the company that does 100% of its money by selling your data and profile to advertisers. So , again, i apologize if i don't exactly trust them on their "check what we know about your and delete it if you want"...

Edited 2012-04-16 14:23 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Untill now i have seen no such behaviour from apple. nor any proofs of it. Again, not saying that i can't happen, just saying that, in the present, i don't think that is credible.


And the whole "info deletion" considering Google is rather suspicious to me.


So, you believe Apple on its blue eyes, but not Google? That's perfectly fine, of course, but you have to be incredibly naive to think that Apple does not use the data it has on its customers to extract more money from them.

That's not true. I did no enabling. The only thing i did do, was browsing the web and doing search on google.com WHILE logged in to my gmail account. Something that i actually never thought was "wrong".


You MUST have enabled it. Maybe you didn't know, did it accidentally, or whatever. But for older accounts, it was only enabled if you opted in. I never opted in, so it's disabled for me. For newer account, it was opt-out.

Reply Parent Score: 3

maccouch Member since:
2012-03-14

"To try out My Search History, you have to sign into Google Accounts (you've already got one if you're a Gmail, Froogle or Google Groups user) and search away. To disable My Search History, just log out and search as usual. Am I scared that someday all-powerful Google will know what color underwear I have on? To some degree, yes. But I'll happily get the stuff I need from the web as fast and easy as I can until then."
http://lifehacker.com/100501/google-my-search-history


This is from April 2005. I'm not sure when exactly was the begining of my webhistory from google's dashboard but this is probably around it.

Reply Parent Score: 1

JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Untill now i have seen no such behaviour from apple. nor any proofs of it. Again, not saying that i can't happen, just saying that, in the present, i don't think that is credible.

In short, you think that Apple is a benevolent organization to help all humanity.

This is the company that does 100% of its money by selling your data and profile to advertisers.

Srsly? This crap again? Hate on Google all you want, but at least don't lie.

This is the company that still keeps your email messages on their servers even though you set up "forward and delete on receival".

So you're complaining about the technical issue, you realize that in a high availability distributed environment data can be stay on their systems for months? Hell, even EU data protection laws have no issues with Facebook not deleting profile data immediately, but after a technically appropriate time period. Your rage is unsubstantiated.

Reply Parent Score: 2

maccouch Member since:
2012-03-14

just by curiosity i went to dashboard and check out their FAQ. read this:

What happens when I pause the service, remove items, or delete the Web History service?

You can choose to stop storing your web activity in Web History either temporarily or permanently, or remove items, as described in Web History Help. If you remove items, they will be removed from the service and will not be used to improve your Google experience. Web History items that you've deleted might show up in your Account Activity Report if the information was saved by Account Activity prior to deletion.

As is common practice in the industry, Google also maintains a separate logs system for auditing purposes and to help us improve the quality of our services for users. For example, we use this information to audit our ads systems, understand which features are most popular to users, improve the quality of our search results, and help us combat vulnerabilities such as denial of service attacks.


I'm sorry, you were saying what about being able to delete your google history from their servers?

Reply Parent Score: 2