Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 16th Apr 2012 08:26 UTC
Internet & Networking "The principles of openness and universal access that underpinned the creation of the internet three decades ago are under greater threat than ever, according to Google co-founder Sergey Brin. The threat to the freedom of the internet comes, he claims, from a combination of governments increasingly trying to control access and communication by their citizens, the entertainment industry's attempts to crack down on piracy, and the rise of 'restrictive' walled gardens such as Facebook and Apple, which tightly control what software can be released on their platforms." That governments - east and west - are trying to destroy the open web, that we know. As for Facebook and Apple... Well, all I know is that it is completely and utterly impossible to check what information Apple has about you. Unlike Google (more here) and to a lesser degree Facebook, Apple provides zero means to see, export, or delete the information they have on you, associated with your Apple ID or otherwise. In 2012, that's just sinister.
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RE[2]: hypocrisy, thy name is Brin
by maccouch on Mon 16th Apr 2012 14:13 UTC in reply to "RE: hypocrisy, thy name is Brin"
maccouch
Member since:
2012-03-14

"Apple uses that data to better understand how to extract money from you. Google does it to better understand how to extract money from advertisers. I don't see the difference. "

Untill now i have seen no such behaviour from apple. nor any proofs of it. Again, not saying that i can't happen, just saying that, in the present, i don't think that is credible.

"Only very recently did Google turn it on by default for NEW ACCOUNTS ONLY. In other words, you willingly turned it on, and now you;re complaining? Even though you can see all the info and delete it? "

That's not true. I did no enabling. The only thing i did do, was browsing the web and doing search on google.com WHILE logged in to my gmail account. Something that i actually never thought was "wrong".

And the whole "info deletion" considering Google is rather suspicious to me. This is the company that set up gmail to not erase your email messages when deleted by an imap client but rather "archive them". This is the company that still keeps your email messages on their servers even though you set up "forward and delete on receival". This is the company that does 100% of its money by selling your data and profile to advertisers. So , again, i apologize if i don't exactly trust them on their "check what we know about your and delete it if you want"...

Edited 2012-04-16 14:23 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Untill now i have seen no such behaviour from apple. nor any proofs of it. Again, not saying that i can't happen, just saying that, in the present, i don't think that is credible.


And the whole "info deletion" considering Google is rather suspicious to me.


So, you believe Apple on its blue eyes, but not Google? That's perfectly fine, of course, but you have to be incredibly naive to think that Apple does not use the data it has on its customers to extract more money from them.

That's not true. I did no enabling. The only thing i did do, was browsing the web and doing search on google.com WHILE logged in to my gmail account. Something that i actually never thought was "wrong".


You MUST have enabled it. Maybe you didn't know, did it accidentally, or whatever. But for older accounts, it was only enabled if you opted in. I never opted in, so it's disabled for me. For newer account, it was opt-out.

Reply Parent Score: 3

maccouch Member since:
2012-03-14

i accept that somehow i might have do it accidentally but i seriously doubt it. I am, and always was, very concerned with my privacy, so that kind of option would have caught my eye.

You sure that you didn't also have your history logged in dashboard on some old gmail accounts?

I did a small search and found out this:

"Originally a separate Google Labs project, the My Search History has now been incorporated into Google’s Personalized Search. Log in with a Gmail or other Google account. As with Ask Jeeves, once a user is logged in, all Google searches are tracked. Google does offer a "pause" function that can stop the recording of search results without logging out."
http://www.infotoday.com/online/mar06/OnTheNet.shtml

the date of the article is march/april 2006.


About the pause logging option, never saw it. But i must admit i wasn't looking for it. As gmail and google search we're supposedly two different products i didn't anticipated their joining of data. Of course back then i didn't really understood how google made its money.


About i trusting apple more than google, it's not a matter of "trust" is simply a matter of understanding what their goal/source of profit is.

Google does its all of its money by datamining. Apples does it by selling products. Google wants to refine the data to you specifically. Apple probably only wants aggregated feedback from their products.

As such i trust apple more regarding my data because:
a) they don't make any money directly from it
b) they have no history of doing it.

I would also say that i trust (more or less) Microsoft int he same way. Until the whole bing/hotmail fiasco they had no interest in my data, just in selling me software. With hotmail/bingo i became a bit more concerned but as Microsoft is essentially a giant set of family-angry mini-organizations, i really don't care a lot. Basically i trust them more then google because they are incompetent.

Reply Parent Score: 1

MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12


So, you believe Apple on its blue eyes, but not Google? That's perfectly fine, of course, but you have to be incredibly naive to think that Apple does not use the data it has on its customers to extract more money from them.


But if Google nukes your privacy and sells your data to anyone who wants it you don't mind?

Recently you liked the idea that Google linked all their databases so they could target you even better with ads, but you don't like it if Apple should use the data they have on you to, well, effectively tempts you to spend money?

It seems both want your money, expect Apple doesn't sell it to companies you have never heard about.

What if it becomes accepted that ads you are presented are targeted and embarrassing ads appear when you want to show someone something? You can't claim it's a random ad, because people wouldn't believe it. Surely all ads are tailor made.

Now from Apple I haven't received any 'offers' and my .mac/.me accounts are spam free (unlike my Gmail account). As I use Apple stuff a lot they should have my all figured out, but it doesn't seem I'm targeted for anything.

So it's strange you favor a proven privacy menace over a company you suspect/hope they do so too.

If one was asked before the rise of Google if it would be a good thing if there was one single company that tracks what you read, watch, see, hear,search, email, where you are, etc..., drives through your street and takes pictures of your house while sniffing your WiFi and they're even on mobile phones with mall ware issues... and sell what they find on you to anyone who pays for it... I'm sure many people wouldn't like this.

Reply Parent Score: 1

maccouch Member since:
2012-03-14

"To try out My Search History, you have to sign into Google Accounts (you've already got one if you're a Gmail, Froogle or Google Groups user) and search away. To disable My Search History, just log out and search as usual. Am I scared that someday all-powerful Google will know what color underwear I have on? To some degree, yes. But I'll happily get the stuff I need from the web as fast and easy as I can until then."
http://lifehacker.com/100501/google-my-search-history


This is from April 2005. I'm not sure when exactly was the begining of my webhistory from google's dashboard but this is probably around it.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

That article is incomplete. To actually be using the feature back then, you had to go to Google Labs and specifically enable it. It was a Labs feature.

Reply Parent Score: 2

JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Untill now i have seen no such behaviour from apple. nor any proofs of it. Again, not saying that i can't happen, just saying that, in the present, i don't think that is credible.

In short, you think that Apple is a benevolent organization to help all humanity.

This is the company that does 100% of its money by selling your data and profile to advertisers.

Srsly? This crap again? Hate on Google all you want, but at least don't lie.

This is the company that still keeps your email messages on their servers even though you set up "forward and delete on receival".

So you're complaining about the technical issue, you realize that in a high availability distributed environment data can be stay on their systems for months? Hell, even EU data protection laws have no issues with Facebook not deleting profile data immediately, but after a technically appropriate time period. Your rage is unsubstantiated.

Reply Parent Score: 2

maccouch Member since:
2012-03-14


In short, you think that Apple is a benevolent organization to help all humanity.


no, i think Apple is a for profit company that does its profits by selling me physical and media products. notice the absence of advertising and profiling from this description?

"This is the company that does 100% of its money by selling your data and profile to advertisers.

Srsly? This crap again? Hate on Google all you want, but at least don't lie.
"

http://www.webpronews.com/google-2011-revenue-breakdown-infographic...
notice the small red letters bellow the 37.9 billion. You may google any other sources but everyone of them will state the same: google does its money from advertising, almost exclusively. (i seriously don't count the 4%)



"This is the company that still keeps your email messages on their servers even though you set up "forward and delete on receival".

So you're complaining about the technical issue, you realize that in a high availability distributed environment data can be stay on their systems for months?
"

no i'm complaining that my forward and deleted email, that should not be indexed or kept by google is indexed, searched, analyzed and put in the gmail trash bin where it sits for 30 days instead of simply forwarding and erasing.

I understand what you said but that is a different technical matter. that it sits around in the cache of the servers for days/weeks ok, i can deal with/accept. That it goes through gmail "indiscrete" processing even though i explicitly asked not to, that i have a problem with.

Reply Parent Score: 1