Linked by Guest on Tue 24th Apr 2012 08:53 UTC
Internet & Networking The SOPA and PIPA laws were defeated in the U.S. just months ago, and already the forces for internet control are back. Up for vote this week, the Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act (CISPA) would override all privacy laws so that private companies (like ISPs) can share all information with the U.S. government. No warrants or other authorization required. Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) points out the problems with this law. Like SOPA and PIPA, the privacy issues and monitoring could reach far beyond U.S. borders.
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RE[2]: Comment by kwan_e
by kwan_e on Tue 24th Apr 2012 14:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by kwan_e"
kwan_e
Member since:
2007-02-18

kwan_e,

"It strikes me that what we really need is to require scientific backing of the effectiveness of policy proposals before anything should be passed into law."


That's what should happen. In reality though even science is abused for political purposes. Whether it's banking, global warming, tobacco, big oil, telecoms, TSA, healthcare, etc, our politicians selectively embrace only the data that supports their opinions and reject everything else. Worse yet, some scientists are being paid to make the science support politically favorable results. I doubt many politicians would genuinely change their minds based on scientific data, however this would be a minimum requirement if we desired an uncorrupted form of science to drive public policy.


You raise a good point.

It really does require coming at it from above and below. The lawmakers need to be scientifically literate, and so do the voters.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Comment by kwan_e
by Gestahlt on Tue 24th Apr 2012 18:50 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kwan_e"
Gestahlt Member since:
2011-10-17

Ha! We have a saying: "Don´t belive any statistic you haven´t made(faked) yourself."

Seems common...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by kwan_e
by BallmerKnowsBest on Tue 24th Apr 2012 19:42 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kwan_e"
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

It really does require coming at it from above and below. The lawmakers need to be scientifically literate, and so do the voters.


In the country with the 2nd highest per-capita number of young Earth creationists in the industrialized world (exceeded only by Turkey)? I wouldn't hold my breath.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Comment by kwan_e
by bassbeast on Wed 25th Apr 2012 04:05 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kwan_e"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

The problem with that idea is that you have 1.-An entire system designed to support corruption, in that to get to higher levels of the system one must has huge piles of cash that simply won't be given to you if you don't "play ball" so that removes the lawmakers, and 2.-as for the public? you have the largest most effective means of propaganda ever pointed right at them, mainstream media and television. Just look at how many believed Iraq was involved with 9/11 (the last numbers I saw put that number still over 30%) simply because that is what many in the MSM insinuated.

The problem is even if you had undeniable science on your side if it went against moneyed interests they would just have the MSM bury you in innuendo and ridicule and nobody would listen to you.

As for TFA this is something I've said for years, we simply have to abandon the Internet as they are gonna turn it into a locked down home shopping network whether you like it or not. too many rich corps have an interest in this and they will simply outlast you. instead we must lay our hopes on the geeks to build a secure anon network on TOP of the existing net, one designed from the ground up to treat everything as suspect. Lucky for us progress has been made in this area with projects like TOR and Freenet but of course more progress must be made.

But in the end if there is one thing we have learned in the states its that there is a never ending supply of greed and an unquenchable lust for power by those at the top, and you can rally and rail and complain all you want, unless your last name is Gates or Ellison or among the top 50 richest frankly they really don't care what you think or want. Vote them out, so what, they'll get a cushy job bribing the next guy. That's the thing about always choosing the lesser of two evils, you're always voting for evil.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by kwan_e
by kwan_e on Wed 25th Apr 2012 07:11 in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by kwan_e"
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

The problem with that idea


There is no problem with the idea. The problem is getting to the state where that idea becomes probable.

As for TFA this is something I've said for years, we simply have to abandon the Internet as they are gonna turn it into a locked down home shopping network whether you like it or not. too many rich corps have an interest in this and they will simply outlast you. instead we must lay our hopes on the geeks to build a secure anon network on TOP of the existing net, one designed from the ground up to treat everything as suspect. Lucky for us progress has been made in this area with projects like TOR and Freenet but of course more progress must be made.


This will have to be done in a wireless manner. There is no way any government would allow its phone lines to be completely out of its control, and no citizens group will have the money to build its own. The private companies will only go the AOL route. The worst case scenario is that they can completely disable the network physically (eg, that kill switch idea bouncing around lately), which is a lot easier with landlines than wireless.

Reply Parent Score: 3