Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 14th May 2012 22:49 UTC
Windows For weeks - if not months - I've been trying to come up with a way to succinctly and accurately explain why, exactly, Windows 8 rubs me the wrong way, usability-wise. I think I finally got it.
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No one gets it.
by xaoslaad on Tue 15th May 2012 01:29 UTC
xaoslaad
Member since:
2006-03-07

How blind is everyone. I keep saying it. No one listens. It is so obvious. Whether it works or not here is what Microsoft and Apple are up to:

In the next version of OS X you will need to enable the ability to allow you to install Applications that come from anywhere but the App Store. How long do you REALLY think that ability to enable installs from anywhere but the App Store is going to be around? One or two more versions?

Now, Microsoft, not to be outdone, has said the only place you can install Metro Apps from is their store. And they're pushing this Metro interface, and making it a total pain in the ass to use your desktop. Put 1+1 together. They want nothing more than to deprecate the Desktop interface and go Metro only.

The only plan to fix this is to get everyone developing Metro apps.

I had Fedora, Windows 7, and OS X installed in the house and used them all almost daily. Call me paranoid, but, "War on General Computing" is _exactly_ what I see going on here.

I installed Fedora on all my systems and completely removed OS X and Windows. I will not pay to lose functionality of my computer. I watch media on Fedora, I play games on Fedora (I lost one of 13 or 14 games because Starforce doesn't work, oh well too bad, so sad), and I work on Fedora. To watch Netflix I bought a Roku which also happens to stream just fine from Linux using Plex.

Like I said, it may not pan out the way they want, but open your eyes to the future they are dreaming of and are certainly trying to steer towards.

Reply Score: 27

RE: No one gets it.
by Alfman on Tue 15th May 2012 02:23 in reply to "No one gets it."
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

xaoslaad,

"How blind is everyone. I keep saying it. No one listens. It is so obvious. Whether it works or not here is what Microsoft and Apple are up to:"

I voted you up because your overall message is right: closed computing currently being shoehorned by the most powerful corporations today is going to rip away so much of the open computing progress we've made in these past several decades.

However I don't like your generalizations about "everyone" being ignorant and blind. There are others who are fighting for open computing too. Insulting us or the people you are trying to convince is counterproductive. It just sucks that we're not important enough to make a real difference. It's good to have more visible people like Wozniak in this "war on computing", since he just might be able to spearhead this issue into the public media. I'm not confident that anyone is going to be able to stop the erosion in computing rights, but every voice helps.

Edit: I do wonder about Steve Wozniak's convictions given his relationship to apple. However he might be a sort of Warren Buffet in trying to fix bad corporate behaviors even though they are beneficiaries.

Edited 2012-05-15 02:43 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: No one gets it.
by xaoslaad on Tue 15th May 2012 02:44 in reply to "RE: No one gets it."
xaoslaad Member since:
2006-03-07

You are right of course, that it is a gross generalisation. But Thom is writing about how he wonders if there is something in store to fix the desktop interface. I seriously doubt it. I believe it is broken by design.

Again maybe I am being paranoid, but the changes coming from both sides really seem to make it clear that everything they are doing is deliberate and intentional with the end goal of have closed ecosystems where they approve all apps and take a chunk of the profit for every sale, whether deserved or not.

It is frustrating and I wonder why it isn't called out more. I guess some of that is that there is no 'proof', but it is still troublesome to watch.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: No one gets it.
by howitzer86 on Tue 15th May 2012 02:48 in reply to "No one gets it."
howitzer86 Member since:
2008-02-27

Your comment got me thinking: what is "General Computing?".

Well, first, your statement was read while in bed with my tablet. But the more I thought about it, the more I wanted to respond. I've responded to comments with the tablet before, but even with the keyboard attachement, I prefer getting up out of bed, walking into the next room, sitting down at the computer, and navigating to the website.

Then, after finding your comment and hitting reply, I realized I wanted to see your comment while replying, so I backed up, opened Notepad.exe and typed my response in that with your comment floating behind and above it.

And all that was just to reply to an internet comment. If Windows 9 were to come about, where Metro is the only choice and there was no windowing system, I might have stayed in bed and not have bothered to reply. This would especially be the case if my keyboard and mouse were depreciated and made incompatible as well. I would not value my desktop as a desktop if it were just a big floating touch screen. There wouldn't be any point in having one. If for whatever reason access to an traditional computer were made impossible... I'd just have a tablet, and dream of better days.

Of course, even before we get to the point that everyone here seems to assume is the future, Microsoft has to avoid pissing off a lot of people. Apple doesn't have this problem because most of their customers are hip trendy people who either do nothing, or are big enough fans that they don't mind this stuff getting in the way of their work (which is probably art related).

So lets imagine a construction company, where the only computers that are available are big floating touch screens with no mice and keyboards. For the people that regularly go onto the construction site, where things are very dirty, those screens would get cloudy very fast. For the architects or drafters or BIM specialists (me), we'd have to somehow work with Revit or Autocad or Navisworks with a touch screen. Autodesk might try to optimise for it, but these programs are so in-depth and complicated that there's no way it would be nearly as usuable as they are today.

The place where I work is not upgrading to Windows 8. If Windows 9 is more of the same, we'll skip that too. The construction industry is huuuge, and totally dependant on Windows and Autodesk software to get the job done. And our sector is just one of many that will skip Windows 8.

So don't worry, Microsoft will get the message and not go all the way. At the worst, we'll just have to deal with Metro for a while. I've run it myself on my laptop... it's not terrible (ignore my rant about Metro earlier on this site).

The benifits of using it seem to outway the problems for an advanced user. Someone leery of computers, like a lot of my peers at work, will not see Metro making things easier for them. They won't be able to turn off the start screen with the registery like I would be able to, and our IT guy is certainly not going to bother installing Windows 8 on all of our machines just so that he can then turn off Metro.

The only people who will be buying this is your fellow geek, trendy hipsters, and whoever happens to be stuck with a Windows 8 machine... assuming those sell at all. It could be a disaster. And if it is one, then rejoice, because that'll be the death of whatever dystopian OS fantasies you're having about touch screen interfaces taking over the world and killing the computer.

Edited 2012-05-15 02:49 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: No one gets it.
by shotsman on Tue 15th May 2012 06:06 in reply to "RE: No one gets it."
shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

Apple doesn't have this problem because most of their customers are hip trendy people who either do nothing, or are big enough fans that they don't mind this stuff getting in the way of their work (which is probably art related).

Would you like to get off your anti-apple hobby-horse and get a dose of reality?

I write software for a living and have done for 40 years. I've dumped Windows at home apart from the system I have to use for work. I write for Unix(AIX), Linux, Windows and even Z/OS at times. I choose to use OSX because it works for me. I'm hardly a hip trendy type, I'm more grumpy old man but after having tried the Win 8 preview, I have to agree with Thom. Win 8 is broken by design.
I think that many more average users will vote with their feet and move away from Windows. IMHO more than 50% will move to OSX. These won't all be hip or trendy people that is for sure.

Meh!

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: No one gets it.
by Luminair on Tue 15th May 2012 04:02 in reply to "No one gets it."
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

people dont care much about much.

people dont care that content producers and distribution networks are merging. or that they pay for things that dont cost money. or that government makes illegal laws. or that there are people with horrible lives because we have good lives. the power abuse is so gentle. it is a bit like star wars. the part before the good movies.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: No one gets it.
by redshift on Tue 15th May 2012 04:04 in reply to "No one gets it."
redshift Member since:
2006-05-06

How blind is everyone. I keep saying it. No one listens. It is so obvious. Whether it works or not here is what Microsoft and Apple are up to:....


People are not blind to it on this forum. Most here actively way the options of various platforms. That does not automatically mean that open source is the best solution for them.

For me OSX or Win 7 works with a preference towarda OSX. Win 8 is going to be a non starter.... OSX's iOSness thus far does not help me much, but at least it manages to stay out of my way. App signing is not inherently bad as long as the user can control over it.

I used to run OS/2 when it suited me more than windows. I certainly would migrate to Haiku, Linux, or BSD if things pan out badly. Something is going to have to cater to advance users and content creators.

For the record... I don't think the war is on general computing. I can do that on my iPad. The war is on advanced computing where I am working with multiple tools and documents at the same time in a fluid manner.

Edited 2012-05-15 04:06 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: No one gets it.
by MollyC on Tue 15th May 2012 05:22 in reply to "No one gets it."
MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

I agree, but the public has embraced this approach. And Apple's stock value is due in large part on getting a 30% cut on all iOS software sales, so naturally they'll bring that model to OSX. And Microsoft figures, "We might as well follow Apple's example and get a 30% cut of all sales of Windows software."

Yes, the era of "general computing" is coming to an end. That's the REAL meaning of "post-pc" era.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: No one gets it.
by kwan_e on Tue 15th May 2012 07:22 in reply to "RE: No one gets it."
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

What's with geeks' obsession with the end of things? Do people just do it so they can be known as the "one who called it"? Is it the same thing that gets religion nerds interested in eschatology and the "end times"?*

The evolution of humans were not the end of chimpanzees.

This is just speciation - the same kind of thing that happened when GUIs came out. The command line still lives on and has its own niche. As will traditional file cabinet/desktop metaphor interfaces. As did the original dumb terminal/central mainframe when it speciated into what is now "cloud computing".

The end times aren't coming - it's only borders being redrawn.

* I hereby invent the new psychological condition known as the "Prophet Complex". Similar to the "Messiah Complex", but with a distinct lack of optimism about being the saviour, resigning themselves to second place as the one who predicts the saviour...

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE: No one gets it.
by tomcat on Tue 15th May 2012 21:07 in reply to "No one gets it."
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Now, Microsoft, not to be outdone, has said the only place you can install Metro Apps from is their store. And they're pushing this Metro interface, and making it a total pain in the ass to use your desktop. Put 1+1 together. They want nothing more than to deprecate the Desktop interface and go Metro only.


BS. They support side-loading.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: No one gets it.
by xaoslaad on Tue 15th May 2012 21:42 in reply to "RE: No one gets it."
xaoslaad Member since:
2006-03-07

BS back at you:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/windows-8-app-store-will-be-the-...

Your reference please?

I have heard for 'Enterprise Customers' there will be alternatives to the store, but that's not John and Jane Q. Public, now is it.

So again, your reference please?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: No one gets it.
by WereCatf on Wed 16th May 2012 01:24 in reply to "RE: No one gets it."
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

BS. They support side-loading.


On the desktop, yes, but on Windows RT, no. So technically, you're both right and wrong.

And I think I saw a mention somewhere that Microsoft doesn't support side-loading of Metro-applications even on the desktop, only regular applications, though I it may just be a rumour, too. Would be nice to get a confirmation on this in either direction.

EDIT: Nevermind, xaoslaad already provided a link to confirm that.

Edited 2012-05-16 01:26 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: No one gets it.
by jrbales on Sat 19th May 2012 07:18 in reply to "No one gets it."
jrbales Member since:
2012-05-19

After working with Windows 8 on my laptop, I've been trying out different Linux distros and find they're not that bad! I've got VirtualBox running with Ubuntu 12.04 with the Cinnamon UI. I plan to try Mint 13/Cinnamon as well as Fedora 17/Gnome 3.x. While I'll probably stick with Windows 7 on my main desktop, it's interesting to see what other options are out there which I may use on some older computers I have. I was surprised to find that even the new Linux UIs (Gnome 3, Unity, Cinnamon, etc.) are intuitive and easy to use (at least they work in a way my mind does which Metro does not. That's just my opinion BTW).

Reply Parent Score: 1