Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 21st May 2012 20:03 UTC
Windows For Microsoft, the traditional desktop is old news. It's on its way out, it's legacy, and the harder they claim the desktop has equal rights, the sillier it becomes. With companies, words are meaningless, it's actions that matter, and here Microsoft's actions tell the real story. The company has announced the product line-up for Visual Studio 11, and the free Express can no longer be used to create desktop applications. Message is clear.
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RE[4]: What will their use be?
by henderson101 on Wed 23rd May 2012 07:46 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: What will their use be?"
henderson101
Member since:
2006-05-30

Not at all. It depends on what school of development you come from. When I started development, Intelisense and code completion did not exist. I had to type 100% of the code, and you know what? I knew what to type. Relying on the IDE to do all the work verges on brogrammer. Not that I'm implying you are incapable of any of the above, but honestly, it's down to your own way of working.

Honestly, Indy development houses do use Visual Studio 2010 express, especially for Niche .Net 4.0, which isn't available in 2008 anyway. People are making good money from free tools. This also completely ignores Sharp Develop and Mono Develop, the latter being more or less on a par with Express.

Reply Parent Score: 3

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

OMG ... I can't believe you are pulling the "Real Developers don't need an IDE card". I am not even going to debate this point (I used to do all my Java development using VIM btw).

Also .NET 4.0 is hardly "niche", any .NET 2.0+ project can easily be upgraded.

Anyway from the horses mouth,

"Visual Studio 2010 Express is a set of free, entry-level products with streamlined interfaces and core capabilities that help you create applications for a single platform."

http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us/products/2010-editions/...

Reply Parent Score: -1

henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

OMG ... I can't believe you are pulling the "Real Developers don't need an IDE card".


No I'm not. I said, over reliance on the IDE to do all of the work is a common sign of a brogrammer. For example, I code every day and I've never touched re-sharper. Apparently you find that astonishing. I also use Winforms, because our entire application suite was written in 2002 and the cost of redeveloping it with every whim that Microsoft has is not desirable. We could stay on VS2008 forever, should we choose to.


Also .NET 4.0 is hardly "niche", any .NET 2.0+ project can easily be upgraded.


OMG.. please! It's a whole new VM backend. 2.0 to 3.5 is a safe bet, but 4.0 - no. That would require a complete regression test of all software. If it ain't broken, no point in fixing it. As we deal with corporations, Windows XP and Windows 7 are here to stay for us for the foreseeable future. The only reason we may have to move to 4 is ASP.Net MVC and Razor.

Anyway from the horses mouth,

"Visual Studio 2010 Express is a set of free, entry-level products with streamlined interfaces and core capabilities that help you create applications for a single platform."


Yeah, "entry level". In no way does that mean "student and learning". Honestly, if I buy and "entry level" Car in a specific range, do I have to be a learner driver? No. Same deal here. You are incorrect, plain and simple. Nowhere on the Microsoft MSDN or VS sites do they state "Express is intended only for education" or words to that effect. Nowhere.

The "educational and non profit" exclusion was removed because MS wanted to push the platform, e.g. if you installed any of the early XNA versions, you were *required* to use the express version. It was actually impossible to install them in a retail/MSDN version of the Visual Studio shell.

Reply Parent Score: 3