Linked by Eugenia Loli on Mon 28th May 2012 03:53 UTC
General Development FuriousFanBoys interviews Ben Goertzel regarding Artificial Intelligence. Ben started the OpenCog project (an open sourced AI non-profit), acts as an adviser to the Singularity University, and currently bounces back between Hong Kong and Maryland building in-game AI.
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RE[5]: Memetics
by JAlexoid on Tue 29th May 2012 04:56 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Memetics"
JAlexoid
Member since:
2009-05-19

Can we prove humans have independent decision making?

Individual level - yes, limited in scope. (Proof lies in the fact that a person can evaluate and select an appropriate food source, without prior knowledge of said food source)
As species - yes, unlimited in scope.

No AI can boast either, to my knowledge.

The main reason why is that we are building AI systems top down, most of the time. Watson is a good example of starting in the middle - logic is there, but not the data.

Deduction, yes, but are we even sure how humans "deduce"?

If we can frame it in some algorithmic way, then it would be great.

What I can say, is that the human brain is the ultimate pattern matching engine.

Edited 2012-05-29 05:13 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Memetics
by kwan_e on Tue 29th May 2012 05:50 in reply to "RE[5]: Memetics"
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

"Can we prove humans have independent decision making?

Individual level - yes, limited in scope. (Proof lies in the fact that a person can evaluate and select an appropriate food source, without prior knowledge of said food source)
As species - yes, unlimited in scope.

No AI can boast either, to my knowledge.
"

Then how do you explain our "independent decision making" when neuroscientists can reproduce the experiment that allows them to predict a person's choice before it was made?

Even forgetting neuroscientific facts, it is clear from sociological studies that most humans don't use the full scope, individually or as a species, of what we consider to be the Ideal Independent Decision Making.

This goes right back to the link one of the other commenters included: the AI effect. All you really provide is a shifting goalpost of what you define as independent decision making, the end result being a definition that not even most humans can claim any significant accomplishment.

What I can say, is that the human brain is the ultimate pattern matching engine.


Actually, the evidence is that we're quite bad at it. We match patterns where there is none often to detrimental effect. Pattern matching is probably something we'll see computers being a lot better at than us in the next 1000 years.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Memetics
by JAlexoid on Tue 29th May 2012 06:11 in reply to "RE[6]: Memetics"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Then how do you explain our "independent decision making" when neuroscientists can reproduce the experiment that allows them to predict a person's choice before it was made?

Not all choices are independent. These is also analytical and "spontaneous" decision making. I'm referring to the analytical part, not the spontaneous. People also share some essential "built-in logic"(aka instincts) that predefine even some very non-trivial decisions.
(I can't say much about neuroscience and am not familiar with that research you seem to be referring to. My knowledge in that area is limited to sleep and EEG)

Actually, the evidence is that we're quite bad at it. We match patterns where there is none often to detrimental effect. Pattern matching is probably something we'll see computers being a lot better at than us in the next 1000 years.

I didn't say that it wasn't detrimental. It is the best possible pattern matching engine. And the fact that we can find patterns where there are none is only proof that it's the ultimate.

Reply Parent Score: 2