Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 31st May 2012 12:24 UTC
Windows "Microsoft has been furiously ripping out legacy code in Windows 8 that would have enabled third parties to bring back the Start button, Start Menu, and other software bits that could have made this new OS look and work like its predecessor. In fact, I've seen that several well-known UI hacks that worked fine with the Windows 8 Consumer Preview are no longer functional in the coming Release Preview. And those with hopes that Microsoft would allow businesses, at least, to boot directly to the desktop should prepare for disappointment. That feature not only isn't happening, it's being removed from Windows Server 12 (Windows 8's stable mate) as well." When you buy a new machine later this year, you will use Metro, an environment wholly inferior, incomplete, and not at all ready to replace the traditional desktop in any way, shape, or form. Whether you like it or not.
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He just doesn't like Metro
by BrianH on Thu 31st May 2012 13:07 UTC
BrianH
Member since:
2005-07-06

Seems that some of the anti-Metro crowd are now claiming that Metro is anti-business, that only the desktop mode is business friendly. That's just silly, and ignores some very nice business Metro UIs that Microsoft has demonstrated. Businesses can adjust to Metro, even if it's just the start screen at first.

One point that he makes that has some validity is that a lot of businesses have just upgraded to Win7, and so Win8 will probably be skipped by the standard business upgrade cycle. That makes it a good time for MS to change things, since it will give business time to adjust before the next cycle comes around.

In many ways this is just like Vista. A lot of people thought that Vista sucked, and skipped it. However, the changes that people complained about in Vista carried over to the acclaimed Win7; people had time to adjust to those changes, and saw that they were good for us.

I think the same thing is going to happen with Win8. Hopefully the process will be in better sync with the business upgrade cycle than Vista was.

Reply Score: -4

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Uh, this is an article by Thurrot... You can call him many things, but anti-Metro he ain't.

Reply Parent Score: 7

inside0ut Member since:
2011-12-24

Sometimes I download Paul Thurrot's windows podcast and he's constantly saying that metro sucks and isn't usable for power users

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: He just doesn't like Metro
by Radio on Thu 31st May 2012 13:44 in reply to "He just doesn't like Metro"
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

A lot of people thought that Vista sucked, and skipped it. However, the changes that people complained about in Vista carried over to the acclaimed Win7; people had time to adjust to those changes, and saw that they were good for us.

Nice spin.

People did not think Vista sucked ; Vista sucked, period.

People acclaimed Win7 not because the poor little things had had time to adapt, but because MS rewrote enough of the PoS named Vista to make it run decently.

The problem here did not lie with the user. It is dishonest to rewrite history that way to put all the blame on shitty users, when they were in fact fed an unpolished turd.

And history repeats itself, with now an unpolished turd with pointy corners.

Reply Parent Score: 21

mkools Member since:
2005-10-11

Vista only sucked because there was no decent third party driver support but if you run Vista now it's almost the same as Windows 7.

Windows 7 is just Vista second edition, not a new OS.

Windows 8 is gonna suck a whole lot more than Vista did.

Reply Parent Score: 12

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

People did not think Vista sucked ; Vista sucked, period.


Well, Vista did suck, yes, but that was in the beginning only; there simply were so many drivers missing and Vista was buggy and an insane resource-hog. SP1 fixed a lot of those issues and SP2 improved it some more.

In other words, Vista sucked in the beginning but it doesn't really suck anymore, ergo the comparison is a very poor one.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Lorin Member since:
2010-04-06

Too many shills on here for sure, I had a coworker who once worked at Microsoft, told me they have an entire department that works all day posting online.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: He just doesn't like Metro
by mkools on Thu 31st May 2012 13:52 in reply to "He just doesn't like Metro"
mkools Member since:
2005-10-11

Businesses can change office hours from 11 PM to 7 AM and adjust to that but that doesn't mean it's good or they should do that.

Windows 8 will be a disaster, even more than Vista was and I expect Windows 9 to arrive somewhere in 2013 with the return of the normal Windows Desktop.

You can't force people to use something that they don't like or don't want to use, even MS can't.

Reply Parent Score: 12

tuaris Member since:
2007-08-05

I expect Windows 9 to arrive somewhere in 2013 with the return of the normal Windows Desktop.


I also expect Ubuntu and GNOME to do the same sometime down the line. Let's face it, these "new" interface designs that are being thrown at us are just experiments gone wrong. The desktop computer will always be needed and have it's place.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE: He just doesn't like Metro
by Arnoud on Thu 31st May 2012 14:33 in reply to "He just doesn't like Metro"
Arnoud Member since:
2010-06-16

Seems that some of the anti-Metro crowd are now claiming that Metro is anti-business, that only the desktop mode is business friendly. That's just silly, and ignores some very nice business Metro UIs that Microsoft has demonstrated. Businesses can adjust to Metro, even if it's just the start screen at first.


I do, as someone who has something of a passion for UI design find Metro very interesting and it challenges to me take a fresh look at UIs. I can imagine it working quite well on phones and tablets. I have tried, but just cannot see it working well for general computing (as opposed to just consuming information) and business usage.

I have never seen these "very nice business Metro UIs" you talk about. If you mean the Dynamics example: http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/20/2886608/microsoft-metro-dynamics-... Thats still just showing some data, I have not seen any Metro apps with serious data entry.

In real life most people using ERP software like Dynamics stare at boring datagrids all day and enter data in them. The old desktop style is far better for that than Metro.

All Metro apps I have seen so far are dashboard style and simple RSS feed readers with news or stocks.

Furthermore Metro absolutely kills multitasking. I have tried the latest Windows 8 preview and all you can do is snap another Metro app to the side. So that's at most two apps open at the same time. Even then, because of Metros massive waste of screen real estate the second app is at best usable as a reference. Switching between apps just takes too long and breaks concentration.

Edited 2012-05-31 14:35 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 13

RE: He just doesn't like Metro
by backdoc on Thu 31st May 2012 15:38 in reply to "He just doesn't like Metro"
backdoc Member since:
2006-01-14

The users where I work are very used to a certain way of working. They don't like change. They will be confused by the new Metro interface. The cost to the company to retrain 3,000+ employees will be astronomical. And, nobody wants it. Even if productivity increases later, it won't be worth it, especially when things work OK the way they are.

I don't believe businesses will upgrade. Personally, I don't know if the interface will be more or less productive. I might even find that I like it. I know that I like Gnome 3 and most people don't seem to like it. So, this is not a reflection on Metro's usability. It's just that it is too radical of a change.

I use Vi. It's far more productive than any other editor. But, its learning curve is also very steep. This prevents many people from using it. Same thing will happen with Metro/Windows 8.

If Microsoft sticks by their guns, eventually enough people will be using it at home that training at the office will be less of an ordeal. At that point, businesses might slowly fall in line. Until then, *IT WILL NOT BE ADOPTED BY BUSINESSES -- THEY DON'T LIKE CUTE -- THEY LIKE PRODUCTIVITY*, period.

Seems that some of the anti-Metro crowd are now claiming that Metro is anti-business, that only the desktop mode is business friendly. That's just silly, and ignores some very nice business Metro UIs that Microsoft has demonstrated. Businesses can adjust to Metro, even if it's just the start screen at first.

One point that he makes that has some validity is that a lot of businesses have just upgraded to Win7, and so Win8 will probably be skipped by the standard business upgrade cycle. That makes it a good time for MS to change things, since it will give business time to adjust before the next cycle comes around.

In many ways this is just like Vista. A lot of people thought that Vista sucked, and skipped it. However, the changes that people complained about in Vista carried over to the acclaimed Win7; people had time to adjust to those changes, and saw that they were good for us.

I think the same thing is going to happen with Win8. Hopefully the process will be in better sync with the business upgrade cycle than Vista was.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: He just doesn't like Metro
by MollyC on Fri 1st Jun 2012 04:43 in reply to "He just doesn't like Metro"
MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

It's embarrassing that people actually downgraded the parent post into hidden status. There was nothing offensive about the comment.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: He just doesn't like Metro
by bassbeast on Sun 3rd Jun 2012 06:44 in reply to "He just doesn't like Metro"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

I'm sorry but you are wrong, and here is why: Vista was buuuuuugggggy! Oh lord was it buggy! I personally got bit by the "media playing slows network" bug which considering i like to have music playing was a show stopper, and the "Vista loses network shares" bug which considering I have a nettop I use for a file server that too was a show stopper. This is why I went back to XP X64 until Win 7 came out, which surprise! Didn't have any real show stoppers, at least for me.

As for Win 8 I've had a CP box set up in my shop for nearly a month and have YET to get a compliment by a customer, or find one that said they would buy Win 8. Win 7 frankly was an easy sale, even Vista wasn't hard until UAC started popping up constantly and irritating them, but Win 8's UI is just a mess. Everyone who tried it in the shop had a comment along the lines of "its a cell phone" which is pretty much Win 8 in a nutshell.

Finally what I find most telling is watch Sinofsky's conference talks on win 8 and count how many times the man says 'touchscreen". I quit counting at 30 on the last one I saw. tell me friend, do YOU have a touchscreen desktop and laptop? Even one or the other? I sure don't, in fact i actually don't know anyone that does. Last figures i saw had touchscreen X86 units at less than 4% of the market. Does MSFT and Sinofsky REALLY think that is gonna change between now and Oct? Again last numbers I saw had a 17 inch touch at $300 and a 27 inch at $275, does he REALLY think people would rather poke a 17 inch screen than have a 27 inch beauty?

Sorry friend but its a failwhale, its MSFT's Hail Mary pass to try to get into a mobile market that doesn't want them, because they seem to refuse to accept nobody runs Windows because they like MSFT, they run it for third party X86 programs that won't be on WinRT. Its gonna be DOA, mark my words.

Reply Parent Score: 2

ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

I'm sorry but you are wrong, and here is why: Vista was buuuuuugggggy! Oh lord was it buggy! I personally got bit by the "media playing slows network" bug which considering i like to have music playing was a show stopper, and the "Vista loses network shares" bug which considering I have a nettop I use for a file server that too was a show stopper. This is why I went back to XP X64 until Win 7 came out, which surprise! Didn't have any real show stoppers, at least for me.

The last 4 words in the quote is exactly why he is not wrong. Vista, and this goes for any OS, is absolutely a YMMV experience. Vista was buggy for you. Vista was not buggy for me, it worked fine.

Reply Parent Score: 2