Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 31st May 2012 21:25 UTC
Windows The Windows 8 release Preview has been released, so go out and get it, test it, and wax lyrically, or complain loudly. I'm installing it as we speak, so no word, thoughts, or impressions from me yet. Like it or hate it, at least have fun, folks.
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RE[3]: Waste of plastic.
by WereCatf on Fri 1st Jun 2012 01:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Waste of plastic."
WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

that make you look more like an astroturfing shill


You clearly haven't seen any of the comments where I've expressed my dislike for Windows 8 and especially Metro. I still object to such blatant bashing-posts such as UZ64's one.

I actually have to wonder who I even could be a shill for when I've clearly said multiple times that I don't really have much experience with OSX and thus won't comment on it, that I really like Windows 7 as my desktop but I really dislike Metro, and that I use Linux on a daily basis but at the same time criticize Linux distributions and F/OSS software for all their shortcomings.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[4]: Waste of plastic.
by UltraZelda64 on Fri 1st Jun 2012 07:43 in reply to "RE[3]: Waste of plastic."
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

You clearly haven't seen any of the comments where I've expressed my dislike for Windows 8 and especially Metro. I still object to such blatant bashing-posts such as UZ64's one.

Oh, well then... you must know what I'm talking about? So what's the problem? And by the way, the Windows 8 Consumer Preview and the Windows 8 Release Preview are *not* the same thing. One was released in February, which I tried and hated, and the other just recently, which I refuse to waste more time and plastic on. ;)

And in response to BluenoseJake, yeah, I agree... "a few hours" is not much. I know... I wanted to play around more with it... but that was before I got it installed. When using it, I realized just how bad it was and just couldn't stand to use it very long.

My experience with that wretched Start screen and the lack of a Start menu on the traditional desktop, combined with the pure shittiness of traditional keyboard-and-mouse control on a desktop setup in Metro (face it: ITS GUI BELONGS ON A PORTABLE TOUCHSCREEN DEVICE), plus Microsoft forcing you to create an online account to download these supposedly amazing Metro "apps" and pushing a cloud-type setup is... just something I refuse to f--k with.

They're forcing us to create Windows "cloud" accounts just to install these supposedly amazing Metro "apps", while at the same time trying to force us out of the traditional desktop by making its use as inconvenient and unpleasant as possible. They're furthermore blocking ALL other operating systems out of any ARM-based Windows 8 machines using so-called "trusted computing" (I prefer the FSF's term for the acronym, it's more accurate...) unless they pay up like Red Hat/Fedora.

They're also providing a traditional Windows/desktop version of Internet Explorer, while blocking other companies from releasing traditional desktop versions of their browsers. They're removing the ability to develop traditional desktop applications from the basic version of, eh, Visual Basic.

But if you want to argue that I'm bitching about the company's practices instead of the OS, all I have to say is: Metro is absolute SHIT unless you're using a tablet or phone (ie. touchscreen), and Microsoft is making the Windows desktop as inconvenient as possible to use to force people away from it. The end result is a shitty operating system.

Windows 95... nice.
Windows 98... even better.
Windows Me... absolute shit.
Windows XP... decent, but relatively shitty until SP2.
Windows Vista... absolute shit.
Windows 7... decent; surprising recovery from the the preceding atrocity.
Windows 8... absolute shit, which has gone so far off the deep end that it probably can't be saved.

Edited 2012-06-01 07:56 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[5]: Waste of plastic.
by dnebdal on Fri 1st Jun 2012 12:03 in reply to "RE[4]: Waste of plastic."
dnebdal Member since:
2008-08-27

You can set it up without a Live account. I've run it like that for a while.

Also, after a while it ... becomes strangely non-annoying: Most apps are pinned to my taskbar, and for the others, Win + type-to-search works quite well, even though the graphical transition is a bit jarring. I could easily use it daily (and in fact I've done so since the desktop preview arrived) - though I wouldn't say it's better than Win7, everything considered.

And no, I don't use a single metro app. Why would I?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Waste of plastic.
by maethorechannen on Fri 1st Jun 2012 12:29 in reply to "RE[4]: Waste of plastic."
maethorechannen Member since:
2009-09-03

Windows 95... nice.
Windows 98... even better.
Windows Me... absolute shit.
Windows XP... decent, but relatively shitty until SP2.


You left out Windows 2000. I still consider Win2k to be the high point of Windows OSes.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Waste of plastic.
by codewrangler on Fri 1st Jun 2012 17:18 in reply to "RE[4]: Waste of plastic."
codewrangler Member since:
2010-01-28

I agree with your post. However, I would also add that 'Metro' on the phone is shit too. Metro is the worst, most confusing UI's I have ever seen. On top of that, it is by far the ugliest UI as well. Microsoft is a Billion dollar+ company. Can't they spend a few bucks and hire a real Graphic Artist instead of having the janitor create graphics in Paintbrush?...:-)

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Waste of plastic.
by Nelson on Fri 1st Jun 2012 17:42 in reply to "RE[4]: Waste of plastic."
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


Oh, well then... you must know what I'm talking about? So what's the problem? And by the way, the Windows 8 Consumer Preview and the Windows 8 Release Preview are *not* the same thing. One was released in February, which I tried and hated, and the other just recently, which I refuse to waste more time and plastic on. ;)


I think a post like the one you just made would've been favorable, as opposed to the small flamebait comment you left. ;) . I think a lot of your criticisms are fair, but I wouldn't even know that, had you not followed up with a more level headed comment.


And in response to BluenoseJake, yeah, I agree... "a few hours" is not much. I know... I wanted to play around more with it... but that was before I got it installed. When using it, I realized just how bad it was and just couldn't stand to use it very long.


I think if you would've spent a little while longer, you might've come away with a different opinion. From what I've seen, it takes people a fair amount of time to adjust, after which they find the Metro workflow pretty natural to use.


My experience with that wretched Start screen and the lack of a Start menu on the traditional desktop, combined with the pure shittiness of traditional keyboard-and-mouse control on a desktop setup in Metro
(face it: ITS GUI BELONGS ON A PORTABLE TOUCHSCREEN DEVICE)


What specifically don't you like about it? I find I can find things across my system faster. I need to find a File, I can filter my search down, I need to find an article within an app, I can filter my search down to just that app. And so on and so fourth, I recently switched back to Windows 7 on one of my laptops and I sorely missed that feature.


plus Microsoft forcing you to create an online account to download these supposedly amazing Metro "apps" and pushing a cloud-type setup is... just something I refuse to f--k with.


Well, in the Control Panel app you can turn off all cloud syncing (All it does is sync apps and app settings to the Cloud in case you ever switch PCs it auto downloads them again.) This is all clearly spelled out in the permissions required by the specific apps, a huge step forward in privacy awareness compared to the status quo on Windows 7.

If it bothers you that much, why don't you just switch it off?


They're forcing us to create Windows "cloud" accounts just to install these supposedly amazing Metro "apps", while at the same time trying to force us out of the traditional desktop by making its use as inconvenient and unpleasant as possible.


This meme has taken on a life of its own. The traditional desktop has received a LOT of love in this release. Multimon set ups are much better than vanilla Win7, File/Copy dialogs have been redesigned to cater to power users, there is a new and awesome Task Manager with richer visualization and control over your system, the system uses less resources, etc. All things which are appreciated by Desktop AND Metro alike.

Also, starting today, Microsoft is listing traditional Win32 applications in the App Store (They provide descriptions, screenshots, and link to the application website where it can be downloaded), so it becomes a great repository of even traditional Windows Applications. I see this as a win for the Desktop too.


They're furthermore blocking ALL other operating systems out of any ARM-based Windows 8 machines using so-called "trusted computing" (I prefer the FSF's term for the acronym, it's more accurate...) unless they pay up like Red Hat/Fedora.


Let's be clear here: You were never going to run Linux on your ARM Tablet anyway. Thanks to hardware makers. It's not because of locked, secured, or trusted bootloaders ever. It's because of drivers.

Same reason I can't just throw vanilla Linux and have it work out of the box on my Android tablet without being severely limited. Drivers.

A lot of the important drivers (Graphics, Sound, WiFi, Camera, 3G, etc.) for tablets are proprietary binary blobs, essential black boxes of functionality.

Even then, the open source glue which binds the Android core to the binary blobs are written using Android specific code (especially with regards to power management, something which iirc, hasn't been put into Linux Kernel proper yet.)

So the likes of Qualcomm, Texas Instruments, etc. aren't about to just willy nilly hand out the source code to interface with major components of their SoC chips.

I think that's more restrictive and prohibitive than anything Microsoft has done.


They're also providing a traditional Windows/desktop version of Internet Explorer, while blocking other companies from releasing traditional desktop versions of their browsers.


This is a side effect, not a conscious effort to block out 3rd party browsers. Unsandboxed code does not execute under Windows ARM Tablet devices, period except for digitally signed Microsoft code.

This is likely due to performance and battery worries, and despite this, I'm not really fond of the solution.

I hope Microsoft is able to come to a sort of agreement with Chrome and Mozilla (Hell, they came to one with Adobe..)

They're removing the ability to develop traditional desktop applications from the basic version of, eh, Visual Basic.


If you're a student you can use DreamSpark, or one of the other dozen or so ways to get the Professional Suite of Visual Studio. Or you can use Mingw, that isn't magically going to go away. Or you can use Visual Studio 2010 Express which includes the tools needed. Or you can install Visual Studio 2012 Express, install the Windows SDK (Both of which you'd already likely have if you're serious about Windows Dev) and wire them up yourself to the VS2012 IDE.


But if you want to argue that I'm bitching about the company's practices instead of the OS, all I have to say is: Metro is absolute SHIT unless you're using a tablet or phone (ie. touchscreen), and Microsoft is making the Windows desktop as inconvenient as possible to use to force people away from it. The end result is a shitty operating system.


Why is it bad? I think that's a more productive discussion than simply saying "It's bad" . Is it bad because you haven't seen it used in any heavy duty applications yet? Do you feel the platform is immature? Does the fullscreen thing bother you?

All would be valid concerns, and all with some degree of hope for being fixed in the very near future.

This reminds me of when WinForms was in its hay day, and WPF came out. People claimed WPF was useless for LOB, and fast forward to today, and people are clinging to WPF LOB saying it's the best thing ever invented.

These things get fixed and refined with time.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Waste of plastic.
by tomcat on Sat 2nd Jun 2012 00:48 in reply to "RE[4]: Waste of plastic."
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Much of what you're complaining about is pure BS driven by ignorance of what's actually available to solve your issues.

My experience with that wretched Start screen and the lack of a Start menu on the traditional desktop, combined with the pure shittiness of traditional keyboard-and-mouse control on a desktop setup in Metro (face it: ITS GUI BELONGS ON A PORTABLE TOUCHSCREEN DEVICE), plus Microsoft forcing you to create an online account to download these supposedly amazing Metro "apps" and pushing a cloud-type setup is... just something I refuse to f--k with.


StarDock offers a FREE utility to restore the Start Menu.

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

They're forcing us to create Windows "cloud" accounts just to install these supposedly amazing Metro "apps"


Wrong. You aren't required to create a cloud account at all.

... while at the same time trying to force us out of the traditional desktop by making its use as inconvenient and unpleasant as possible.


See above. Rinse. Wash. Repeat.


They're furthermore blocking ALL other operating systems out of any ARM-based Windows 8 machines using so-called "trusted computing" (I prefer the FSF's term for the acronym, it's more accurate...) unless they pay up like Red Hat/Fedora.


Nonsense. UEFI is a boot specification that can be implemented by any vendor and ARM. Red Hat/Fedora are free to do precisely that.

They're also providing a traditional Windows/desktop version of Internet Explorer, while blocking other companies from releasing traditional desktop versions of their browsers.


Whoopie sh-t. They have zero marketshare in ARM.

They're removing the ability to develop traditional desktop applications from the basic version of, eh, Visual Basic.


Nonsense. Get a current RTM version of Visual Studio, and run it on Win8 to develop desktop apps.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[5]: Waste of plastic.
by zima on Thu 7th Jun 2012 21:42 in reply to "RE[4]: Waste of plastic."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Windows 95... nice.
Windows 98... even better.
Windows Me... absolute shit.
Windows XP... decent, but relatively shitty until SP2.
Windows Vista... absolute shit.
Windows 7... decent; surprising recovery from the the preceding atrocity.
Windows 8... absolute shit, which has gone so far off the deep end that it probably can't be saved.

Hm...

95 - shit, but since there was really nothing else suitable...
98 - bearable; 98SE - I can live that
Me - with that even more, as long as one remembers (unlike many) that it has a bit too many changes from earlier 9x, and so the old tricks tend to brake the system
XP - more of quite decent 2k, with tweaks here and there
Vista - some hiccups at the start, mostly from driver turmoil; very decent after service pack
Win7 - virtually the same OS as service packed Vista, people get captured by "7 magical number" thinking
Win8 ...oh well, perhaps analogous to 1.x or 2.x, I suppose; but afterwards, 3.x was quite likeable ans spearheaded the way for later domination.


Ultimately, every of those of versions will fall under "good old times effect" - you already do that with 9x. In 2030s many will probably do that with Win8.

Edited 2012-06-07 21:43 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2