Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 14th Jun 2012 15:15 UTC, submitted by Jos
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless And the burning platform is still, uhm, burning. "Chief Executive Stephen Elop is placing hopes of a turnaround on a new range of smartphones called Lumia, which use largely untried Microsoft software. But Lumia sales have so far been slow, disappointing investors." It's a shame to see a once proud company in such a downward spiral, but alas, it's the way of business. If you get complacent - as Nokia had gotten - you will fail.
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RE[2]: Its a restructuring
by Nelson on Thu 14th Jun 2012 22:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Its a restructuring"
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

A lot of it can be addressed with time. I think we'll just have to disagree on the Lumia success, I see clear momentum. Maybe not run way success, but very clear momentum.

Sequential growth is also high, so its indicative of an ongoing trend of growth.

I don't believe Lumias are sold at a loss, I've never heard of them being sold at a loss.

WP8 will enable high resolutions, differing SoC chipsets, better cameras, essentially a wider range of hardware. I think on the high end, Nokia will have no problem beating others. Their Camera tech is particularly impressive.

For the low end, it remains to be seen if WP8 can address that, though I sincerely hope it can.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Its a restructuring
by Moocha on Thu 14th Jun 2012 22:57 in reply to "RE[2]: Its a restructuring"
Moocha Member since:
2005-07-06

Yes, but Nokia is out of time. They're bleeding income, profits, capital, market share, and worst of all talent. A high risk gamble like switching to WP and abandoning its traditional markets should have paid out within four quarters. It didn't (spectacularly so - how the people responsible aren't yet being tarred and feathered doesn't cease to amaze me), and I don't see how Nokia could possibly recover from the hole it dug for itself. The most likely future is probably someone managing to secure the financing required to buy it and carve it up for the manufacturing capability and the patent portofolio (the best people will long since have left.)

I don't think it's with the illumination of hindsight when I say that the fallout from Elop's idiotic timing should have been obvious... He neglected rule #12 on the most excellent (and entertaining) Evil Overlord List ( can be enjoyed at http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html ).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Its a restructuring
by Nelson on Thu 14th Jun 2012 23:04 in reply to "RE[3]: Its a restructuring"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Yes, but Nokia is out of time. They're bleeding income, profits, capital, market share, and worst of all talent. A high risk gamble like switching to WP and abandoning its traditional markets should have paid out within four quarters.


I think the Lumia line was targeting their high end, which wasn't doing too hot in the first place. The transition is still in full swing. I think if after this major Windows Phone release (With they've had a great part in, if the rumors are to be believed) they don't move anything meaningful, then its time to worry about their investment.

However, I think shareholders and the board can see signs of encouragement. The Lumia sales, while again, not up to par with Android or iOS, have not been devastating. Its not like they sold 100,000 ever. They've sold millions.

Symbian on the high end never did this great.

I think what one person calls "talent" another can call "middle management cruft", and I think Nokia could stand still, from even more downsizing. Times change, and they need to be more nimble than they are.


The most likely future is probably someone managing to secure the financing required to buy it and carve it up for the manufacturing capability and the patent portofolio


I don't doubt they'll be able to secure the funding to sustain themselves through their transition (From Microsoft to me looks likely, they're not about to let Nokia go under), and I think there's still tremendous value in the company.

They're not out of cards to play. Yet.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

You do understand that Nokia cannot continue as a company its size and cost structure, if the Lumina is not a run away success very soon. You will see more announcements like this of layoffs and closings of offices.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[4]: Its a restructuring
by Nelson on Thu 14th Jun 2012 23:32 in reply to "RE[3]: Its a restructuring"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I have faith that Nokia will push into Symbian territory with attractive Lumia devices.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Its a restructuring
by joekiser on Thu 14th Jun 2012 23:44 in reply to "RE[2]: Its a restructuring"
joekiser Member since:
2005-06-30

I don't believe Lumias are sold at a loss, I've never heard of them being sold at a loss.


That's because they aren't. There was a breakdown in the WSJ last week about the profit margin on the Lumia 900 versus the iPhone 4S, complete with a price breakdown of every component of the phone. I don't remember the exact figures, but Nokia is profiting in close to $300 on each Lumia sold; Apple pulls in over $400.

The Nokia has been *very* successful in the US at planting the seeds for a Lumia brand. It's not there yet; less than half the market is even accessible right now due to Lumia's GSM-only nature. But Lumia is certainly doing more stateside than dead-end Symbian was doing the past few years.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Its a restructuring
by tanzam75 on Fri 15th Jun 2012 04:24 in reply to "RE[3]: Its a restructuring"
tanzam75 Member since:
2011-05-19


That's because they aren't. There was a breakdown in the WSJ last week about the profit margin on the Lumia 900 versus the iPhone 4S, complete with a price breakdown of every component of the phone. I don't remember the exact figures, but Nokia is profiting in close to $300 on each Lumia sold; Apple pulls in over $400.


You mean this infographic: http://www.phonearena.com/news/WSJ-infographic-of-the-Lumia-900-and...

Nokia is earning $241 per Lumia 900, versus Appleā€™s $459 per iPhone 4S. For Apple, that's a gross margin of nearly 70%.

Of course, this is due largely to the substantially higher carrier subsidy that Apple gets. Apple has a market-dominant position, and is not afraid to throw its weight around. Most of its profits come directly from the carrier's pocket.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Its a restructuring
by tonny on Fri 15th Jun 2012 07:16 in reply to "RE[2]: Its a restructuring"
tonny Member since:
2011-12-22

Looks like you love MS and Nokia that much, sir, to the point that... forget it.

Well, yes, a lot of it can be ADDRESSED with time. Like don't update our Lumia line (f*ck them. let them stick with our dated OS, muahaha), do not give upgrade to the phone below 256MB of memory. Slash the feature for cheaper phone, etc..etc..

If I'm in the brink of death, I'm sure I wont do that. I'd do the opposite to capture back my market share. But well, it's just me ;) .

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Its a restructuring
by Nelson on Fri 15th Jun 2012 07:37 in reply to "RE[3]: Its a restructuring"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

What are you even saying? English.

Reply Parent Score: 2