Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 14th Jun 2012 15:15 UTC, submitted by Jos
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless And the burning platform is still, uhm, burning. "Chief Executive Stephen Elop is placing hopes of a turnaround on a new range of smartphones called Lumia, which use largely untried Microsoft software. But Lumia sales have so far been slow, disappointing investors." It's a shame to see a once proud company in such a downward spiral, but alas, it's the way of business. If you get complacent - as Nokia had gotten - you will fail.
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RE[3]: Its a restructuring
by Moocha on Thu 14th Jun 2012 22:57 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Its a restructuring"
Moocha
Member since:
2005-07-06

Yes, but Nokia is out of time. They're bleeding income, profits, capital, market share, and worst of all talent. A high risk gamble like switching to WP and abandoning its traditional markets should have paid out within four quarters. It didn't (spectacularly so - how the people responsible aren't yet being tarred and feathered doesn't cease to amaze me), and I don't see how Nokia could possibly recover from the hole it dug for itself. The most likely future is probably someone managing to secure the financing required to buy it and carve it up for the manufacturing capability and the patent portofolio (the best people will long since have left.)

I don't think it's with the illumination of hindsight when I say that the fallout from Elop's idiotic timing should have been obvious... He neglected rule #12 on the most excellent (and entertaining) Evil Overlord List ( can be enjoyed at http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html ).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Its a restructuring
by Nelson on Thu 14th Jun 2012 23:04 in reply to "RE[3]: Its a restructuring"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Yes, but Nokia is out of time. They're bleeding income, profits, capital, market share, and worst of all talent. A high risk gamble like switching to WP and abandoning its traditional markets should have paid out within four quarters.


I think the Lumia line was targeting their high end, which wasn't doing too hot in the first place. The transition is still in full swing. I think if after this major Windows Phone release (With they've had a great part in, if the rumors are to be believed) they don't move anything meaningful, then its time to worry about their investment.

However, I think shareholders and the board can see signs of encouragement. The Lumia sales, while again, not up to par with Android or iOS, have not been devastating. Its not like they sold 100,000 ever. They've sold millions.

Symbian on the high end never did this great.

I think what one person calls "talent" another can call "middle management cruft", and I think Nokia could stand still, from even more downsizing. Times change, and they need to be more nimble than they are.


The most likely future is probably someone managing to secure the financing required to buy it and carve it up for the manufacturing capability and the patent portofolio


I don't doubt they'll be able to secure the funding to sustain themselves through their transition (From Microsoft to me looks likely, they're not about to let Nokia go under), and I think there's still tremendous value in the company.

They're not out of cards to play. Yet.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Its a restructuring
by dsmogor on Fri 15th Jun 2012 06:26 in reply to "RE[4]: Its a restructuring"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

> I think the Lumia line was targeting their high end, which wasn't doing too hot in the first place.
I don't think so, L800 was an upper midrange at best with L710 being lower midrange.
L800 apparently flopped with L710 having some mild uptake.
Then Nokia itself has pushed MS hard to support lowend with L610.
L900 is perceived as a flagship but due to WP restrictions falls short to contemporaries from Apple and Samsung. The price they are asking for L900 (like free after the bug) cerainly doesn't position is as a highend device.

>> The Lumia sales, while again, not up to par with Android or iOS, have not been devastating.
It's not Android that you should confront Lumia sales with but Symbian, esp. in countries that Nokia used to dominate just few months ago. And that is devastating.

>> Symbian on the high end never did this great.
Agree, nevertheless N8 has enjoyed good prices and improved Nokia ASP before symbian was killed.
N9 in the other hand had won number of design awards and was universally appreciated due to both SW and HW.

>> I think what one person calls "talent" another can call "middle management cruft", and I think Nokia could stand still, from even more downsizing.
Nokia is firing both people that defined its software identity and long time sales force that knows the cell phone business (and were impartial in creating it in the first place) more than middle level managers from MS Elop replaces them with will ever do.


>> I don't doubt they'll be able to secure the funding to sustain themselves through their transition (From Microsoft to me looks likely, they're not about to let Nokia go under)
The rumors state that the financing will the financing will not come free but in exchange for essential patents that Nokia have developed in last 15 years and MS will use to destroy Android. Getting them on the cheap seems to be a major theme behind the whole story.

Edited 2012-06-15 06:28 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Its a restructuring
by cdude on Fri 15th Jun 2012 17:10 in reply to "RE[4]: Its a restructuring"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

> Symbian on the high end never did this great.

You seem to get the numbers once more wrong. Symbian *still* has way more market-share then WP7 every had and hence there are way more Symbian-devices sold then WP7.

See e.g. http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1924314

Symbian: 32.3% market-share
Windows (CE and WP7 combined): 3.4% market-share

And just to make it clear: The N8 is as much high-end as someone can have and it sold way better then all lumia together.

Edited 2012-06-15 17:12 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2