Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 14th Jun 2012 15:15 UTC, submitted by Jos
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless And the burning platform is still, uhm, burning. "Chief Executive Stephen Elop is placing hopes of a turnaround on a new range of smartphones called Lumia, which use largely untried Microsoft software. But Lumia sales have so far been slow, disappointing investors." It's a shame to see a once proud company in such a downward spiral, but alas, it's the way of business. If you get complacent - as Nokia had gotten - you will fail.
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RE: Its a restructuring
by Radio on Fri 15th Jun 2012 06:59 UTC in reply to "Its a restructuring"
Radio
Member since:
2009-06-20

Ahahah, so much spin!

The Lumia 900 has sold very well in the United States, and still, even now, holds its own against the HTC One series.
Who cares about the USA, a saturated market? And why compare it to the One series specifically (the one which suffered delays thanks to an Apple ban)? Cherry-picking much?

Sure, they're not Android numbers, but they don't really need to be there for now. The Lumias use lower end parts, so manufacturing costs are less. Plus the 800 manufacturing was outsourced to Compal (Who also said they were pleased with demand, and actually increased in profit due to it).
Nokia has its own factories, but they are throwing money at Compal because their own factories can't produce the Lumias? Marvellous!

Windows Phone YoY growth has been pretty impressive. There are an estimated 13.5 million Windows Phone handsets in the wild.
Yeah, but all the smartphone market is growing at an astonishing rate. The rising tide lifts all boats. The real question is: is WP growing as fast or faster than competitors?

Kantar recently reported that in major markets, Windows Phone holds a 3-4% marketshare.
Well, I guess that answers it.

Lumia sales may be "slow and disappointing" by Android standards, but anyone who expected the Lumia to move 20 million a quarter was out of their mind anyway. Things like these take time.
They don't have time. Market saturation is coming fast (as close as next year, 2014 if it goes more asymptotic), and old users are locked in the ecosystem they choose by the apps they bought.

If Samsung, HTC, LG, and the other Windows Phone OEMs put in as much effort as Nokia, and each sold as much as Nokia does with the Lumia, Windows Phone marketshare would look much closer to 10% than it does now.
Woah. "If" ALL WP partners were putting all their efforts together, they WOULD get a meager 10%? THAT's a value proposition! Can't see why they didn't do that. Beats me.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Its a restructuring
by Nelson on Fri 15th Jun 2012 07:36 in reply to "RE: Its a restructuring"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Who cares about the USA, a saturated market?


The only people who complain about market saturation are those who can't think of new business models. Times change, and companies will too.

However, all of that is an aside, and not part of the point. The point is Nokia reestablished itself in the USA after a near zero presence.

Whether it signs up new people, or converts existing Androids and iOS users is irrelevant.


And why compare it to the One series specifically (the one which suffered delays thanks to an Apple ban)? Cherry-picking much?


The comparison I was making was an observation made based off of preorders, which don't much care for an import ban that lasted like a week, and which predated said import ban.

I'm not really cherry picking, on sites like Amazon the Lumia topped the charts for quite some time.

Nokia has its own factories, but they are throwing money at Compal because their own factories can't produce the Lumias? Marvellous!


It was a timing and logistics thing mainly, the 900 is produced in house by Nokia.

Not that there's anything wrong with outsourcing manufacturing. I wish they'd do more of it, or do you think less of Apple for outsourcing their manufacturing? Very few OEMs live a double life as an ODM.

Yeah, but all the smartphone market is growing at an astonishing rate. The rising tide lifts all boats. The real question is: is WP growing as fast or faster than competitors?


Obviously it is, thanks to Nokia, since it has grown in key markets (Gone from 1-2% to 3-4%) which means it is outpacing smart phone market growth (otherwise itd be flat if it was keeping up, or negative if it was being outpaced)

Well, I guess that answers it.


A marked improvement from the sometimes sub 1% representation of Windows Phone. My point with these figures is to show that the Lumia (in its limited time of availability, in its gradual roll out) has made inroads, moreso than other OEMs.

They don't have time. Market saturation is coming fast (as close as next year, 2014 if it goes more asymptotic), and old users are locked in the ecosystem they choose by the apps they bought.


Under the current business model. Like I said before, things change. Microsoft is working on allowing people to migrate their apps from say, Android to Windows Phone.

You can check it out here: http://www.unwiredview.com/2012/05/17/what-app-problem-microsoft-is...

Microsoft has an app store with 100,000 apps. The growth of the store has been explosive. Apps wont be a limiting factor.

Woah. "If" ALL WP partners were putting all their efforts together, they WOULD get a meager 10%? THAT's a value proposition! Can't see why they didn't do that. Beats me.


"By now", not 10% ever. Its a great start. I'm sure HTC (who's not looking too good lately either) would love to have a couple million more Windows Phones sold under its belt.

Competition is less stiff than on the Android side, dealing with Samsung and all.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Its a restructuring
by Radio on Fri 15th Jun 2012 09:40 in reply to "RE[2]: Its a restructuring"
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

"By now", not 10% ever. Its a great start. I'm sure HTC (who's not looking too good lately either) would love to have a couple million more Windows Phones sold under its belt.
You mean the HTC who has been a Windows Mobile maker from the beginning, who got bullied into paying the "Microsoft Tax" for any Android device sold and who is now shut down from building W8 tablet?

HTC rather wants to say "f--k you, bastard".

Edited 2012-06-15 09:40 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Its a restructuring
by DeadFishMan on Fri 15th Jun 2012 16:46 in reply to "RE[2]: Its a restructuring"
DeadFishMan Member since:
2006-01-09

"By now", not 10% ever. Its a great start. I'm sure HTC (who's not looking too good lately either) would love to have a couple million more Windows Phones sold under its belt.


PUHLEEZE! As if HTC would bother to pump more money into a business to help out a "partner" get traction on its struggling platform without any clear signs from the market of return of that investment when said partner leeches whatever it can from their other somewhat successful business with bullshit patent racketeering and recently has told them loud and clear that it doesn't want to help them to generate some extra income with its upcoming tablet business, for $DEITY's sake!

If I were in a decision taking position at HTC, I'd be begging the board to discuss ways to split ways with Microsoft, not to increase an already abusive relationship with them.

Edited 2012-06-15 16:53 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Its a restructuring
by Odisej on Fri 15th Jun 2012 09:23 in reply to "RE: Its a restructuring"
Odisej Member since:
2006-05-11

Finally a sensible answer. Well, I come from a country with a micro market if you will. One million potential buyers is not a lot. But it is a great place to follow the trends. Much more than in some huge market such as Germany.

This is what is happening here. Three years ago there was nothing but Nokia. If you would ask any "opinion maker" Nokia was a way to go. Since forever. Their brand was so strong operators were fighting who will have the latest and the greatest Nokia. They were the king and the queen.

Than came Samsung (not Apple but Samsung) with Galaxy S. Their approach was well planned and timed. They were able to overshadow Apple in a month. After Samsung other Android manufacturers followed, HTC being quite aggressive, Sony ...

And Nokia? Its completely gone. They tried with N9 which was overpriced compared to what Samsung and others were offering. They are putting a lot of effort into Lumias now. You can see the commercials on stairs, buses, everywhere. Yet, everybody is talking about Galaxy S3. If you ask an "opinion maker" today - folks who read sites like OSNews - they would not even mention Nokia. It's that bad.

But if you were to merge Nokia hardware with Andorid software... I bet it could still be a winner in this market and in Europe in general. The window of opportunity is small though as Nokia is fading from day to day while Samsung and HTC are going supernova.

Btw, the other day a talked with a Thai gentlemen. Hhe was looking for a phone for his daughter back home. What did she order - HTC One or galaxy S2 or S3.

Edited 2012-06-15 09:25 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1