Linked by Howard Fosdick on Mon 18th Jun 2012 05:29 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Over at the Goodbye, Microsoft web site, Brad R. takes Ubuntu to task for abandoning dial-up modem users. Apparently Ubuntu no longer includes the GnomePPP dial-up package in the distribution, without which you can't get online via dial-up. It gets better: if you do have some way to connect, when you download something from the Ubuntu repository, the first thing Ubuntu does is update its 16+ megabyte repository index. Happy waiting! Brad concludes that "Ubuntu is for broadband users only."
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seriously
by Orisai on Mon 18th Jun 2012 06:04 UTC
Orisai
Member since:
2012-06-18

lol seriously who uses dial-up internet connections these days? Retiring obsolete technology is in fact, a good thing IMO.

Reply Score: -1

RE: seriously
by woegjiub on Mon 18th Jun 2012 06:10 in reply to "seriously"
woegjiub Member since:
2008-11-25

Ubuntu frames itself as being for everyone, with a specific Africa angle.

They really think most people in Africa are going to have a broadband connection?

I always removed it upon installation, so it is not harming people in Australasia/Europe/North America for the most part, but for them to be targeting Africa in particular, and then leave out such an important tool for the kind of obsolete tech it seems like most people have over there seems like a bad move.

Reply Parent Score: 11

RE[2]: seriously
by dsmogor on Mon 18th Jun 2012 07:32 in reply to "RE: seriously"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

Couldn't agree more. I still remember how painful was the Linux update process on a dialup. All repository goodies that you praise on a broadband working against you. There were some primitive tools to help but they were primitive and buggy, I ended up writing my own.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: seriously
by Soulbender on Mon 18th Jun 2012 07:47 in reply to "RE: seriously"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

They really think most people in Africa are going to have a broadband connection?


Most people in Africa doesn't have internet at all. Internet adoption is like 10-15%.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: seriously
by earksiinni on Mon 18th Jun 2012 08:46 in reply to "RE: seriously"
earksiinni Member since:
2009-03-27

Poor people use dial-up, Africa is poor, therefore Africa uses dial-up. Syllogistic logic at its finest.

If anything, dial-up is a luxury that only the industrialized world can afford. Landline penetration in Africa is very low and most personal internet access is carried informally over cellular networks. Tethering is your best bet in Africa.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: seriously
by lucas_maximus on Mon 18th Jun 2012 12:44 in reply to "RE: seriously"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

How is one going to update a distro without at least a 1mb/s connection?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: seriously
by gan17 on Mon 18th Jun 2012 13:52 in reply to "RE: seriously"
gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03


They really think most people in Africa are going to have a broadband connection?

If you go by that school of thought; Most people in Africa probably wouldn't have the 32 cpu cores and 8000 GB RAM required to run Unity anyway.

I know Ubuntu is an African word and Shuttelworth is South African, but I don't recall ever reading that they were "targeting" Africa specifically. Even if they were, they sure aren't now looking at the system requirements.

It does sound a bit strange, though. Pppoe-whatever packages are probably just a few kb, and someone living in a rural place with only dial-up wouldn't have the ability to download the packages if he couldn't get connected in the first place. Then again, I suppose someone with dial-up wouldn't be downloading a 600mb ISO anyway.

Edited 2012-06-18 14:01 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: seriously
by galvanash on Mon 18th Jun 2012 16:40 in reply to "RE: seriously"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

Ubuntu frames itself as being for everyone, with a specific Africa angle.

They really think most people in Africa are going to have a broadband connection?


Two things.

One, Ubuntu does not and has never had a "specific Africa angle". Mark Shuttleworth is South African - that explains the name. There is nothing else to explain. The stated goal of Ubuntu is simply to make their software available free of charge on equal terms to everyone, and well that is it. If they were trying to solve Africa's problems I'm pretty damn sure they would be doing something completely different...

Second... You don't know what you are talking about. Less than 3% of the population of Africa have landline telephone, and only a fractional percentage of those with landlines even have dialup capability. The number WiMax/Cellular internet users in Africa far outweigh the number of dial up user (by at least a few orders of magnitude). WiMax/Cellular data use in Africa is growing dramatically, about 4X faster than the rest of the world in the last 10 years (although it is still relatively small). Dialup? Never even got off the ground there. Africa will likely never have more than maybe .25% dialup users, if that.

90% or so of ALL internet users in Africa are in South Africa, Morroco, or Egypt. About half of them are on some form of wireless. In the rest of Africa it is closer to 98% wireless, because they simply don't have the infrastructure for anything else - even dialup.

In short the about the last place on earth where this matters is Africa. It is a much bigger problem for the US, which still has a very sizable dialup userbase.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: seriously
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Mon 18th Jun 2012 18:01 in reply to "RE: seriously"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Other than their name, what makes you think Ubuntu is targeting Africa? Is Apple a company that focuses on selling devices for Fruitarians?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: seriously
by bert64 on Mon 18th Jun 2012 06:11 in reply to "seriously"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

Some people have no choice...

And some of us occasionally travel to locations where dialup is the only option, and its more than adequate for checking email etc.

They should include the ppp dialer on the default install cd, even if its not installed by default, the rest of the ppp stack is presumably included for pppoe/3g users and the like anyway so its not a lot of extra space, and someone on such a connection won't want to be downloading it.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: seriously
by Soulbender on Mon 18th Jun 2012 07:52 in reply to "RE: seriously"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

And some of us occasionally travel to locations where dialup is the only option, and its more than adequate for checking email etc.


There's nothing stopping you from installing gnomeppp before going to such an area.
Ubuntu also comes with CLI ppp tools (pppconfig, pppd, pon etc) by default so it's not like it's not there for those who need it initially.
Took me about 30 seconds or so to find that out, couldn't have been that hard for the guy at goodbyemicrosoft to do the same.

Edited 2012-06-18 07:53 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE: seriously
by Kroc on Mon 18th Jun 2012 06:32 in reply to "seriously"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

lol, like only 20% of the USA. And most of Africa.

Millions. Millions and millions and millions of people.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: seriously
by lelutin on Mon 18th Jun 2012 07:32 in reply to "seriously"
lelutin Member since:
2008-07-17

There are still a bunch of people (yes even here, in Canada) that depend on dialup because faster technologies haven't pierced through sparsely populated areas.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, some countries in Africa and other parts of the world still don't provide media as fast as in Japan, Western Europe or the US.

Getting rid of old technology is only good when doing so will force newer technologies to take its place.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: seriously
by dnebdal on Mon 18th Jun 2012 11:58 in reply to "RE: seriously"
dnebdal Member since:
2008-08-27

As mentioned upthread, dialup isn't actually that common in Africa - they've sort of skipped landlines and gone directly to cellphones.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: seriously
by kenji on Mon 18th Jun 2012 15:26 in reply to "seriously"
kenji Member since:
2009-04-08

LOL at your lack of knowledge. Dial-up is still very much alive and well.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: seriously - budget or location limited users
by jabbotts on Mon 18th Jun 2012 18:44 in reply to "seriously"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I'm not seeing much cable or fiber run to the various farms around the area.

I'm not seeing universal coverage from wireless signals; maybe the local cell tower lacks the latest dish for mobile data.

I'm not seeing affordable highspeed that fits into everyone's budgets; 20$ or less for a modem is more affordable than 50$ or more for cable/isdn.

Local carriers still offer dial-up subscriptions so there must be enough demand to continue supporting it.

Don't poopoo modems just because you can't think beyond your uberl33t couch.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: seriously
by bassbeast on Tue 19th Jun 2012 04:59 in reply to "seriously"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Because you've just made sure anyone on dialup will go with Windows because Linux is "broken" as far as they are concerned? And i hate to break the news to ya but in large sections of the USA you'll be lucky to be able to use a 3G modem, and I'm not talking the hills of WV either, when I spent a couple of years in downtown Nashville right off music row there was NO DSL or Cable because the duopoly had cherry picked and refused to run any lines, happy to just keep gouging current customers with higher fees than lay pipe.

So maybe if you are in some highly populated section of EU you might think its funny and worthless to have dialup, but until a WISP opened up in my area a year ago frankly it was that or insanely priced satnet for my mom, who lives less than a block from the end of a junction where the cable and DSL ends. you can literally see the lines from her front porch, neither will run it to her. I don't know how things are where you live but I've been lucky enough to travel all over the southern USA and I can tell you even college towns will have areas in town with NO SERVICE, its just pathetic.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: seriously
by zima on Sat 23rd Jun 2012 14:19 in reply to "RE: seriously"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

It is "funny" also when you're in sparsely populated areas of the EU (there are quite a few of those - including somewhat indigent ones)

Fix abuses from your carriers (though I guess the sacred cow of "free market" might get in the way...)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: seriously
by elzurawka on Tue 19th Jun 2012 19:43 in reply to "seriously"
elzurawka Member since:
2005-07-08

In many part of rural Canada its not economically viable to extend broadband access. Many of these people still use dial up.

Just because in big cities some technologies are not used any more(although im sure there are plenty of people inside the big cities who still use dial up) does not mean that they have disapeared and are useless.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/05/21/dialup-internet-...

Edited 2012-06-19 19:43 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1