Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 20th Jun 2012 00:40 UTC, submitted by rohan_p
Amiga & AROS "Icaros Desktop is an effort to build a modern Amiga-compatible operating system for standard x86 hardware. It's a distribution built atop AROS, which is an open source effort to create a system compatible at the API level with the AmigaOS 3.x series. I recently had a chat to the creator of Icaros, Paolo Besser, about the creation of the OS and why Amiga continues to inspire people today."
Thread beginning with comment 523001
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE[4]: Hmmm
by zima on Wed 20th Jun 2012 09:50 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Hmmm"
zima
Member since:
2005-07-06

As I pointed out, personal anecdotes only go so far ...might be also a difference between places, how one just got copied games at ~shops here, and the usually very economically unattractive add-ons (while those with Amigas had them specifically because they were inexpensive).

But Amigas being used mostly for games is a fairly reliable info. And most importantly, when you look at auction sites today, Amiga sets including external disk drives or memory expansions are much rarer than "plain" configs...

PS. And when getting Amiga, one typically got rid of C64 set - also to aid in Amiga purchase. Plus the joysticks of old days seemed to have relatively short lifespans... (I did prevail with only one set, but mostly thanks to my repair abilities which first manifested themselves like that)

Edited 2012-06-20 10:05 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Hmmm
by MOS6510 on Wed 20th Jun 2012 10:25 in reply to "RE[4]: Hmmm"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Amiga's being used for games is probably a fact, but an extra floppy drive is an logical assumption. Try using an Amiga without an extra drive, you spend more time swapping disks than using it. Perhaps these extra drives easily got lost when people moved their Amiga's in to the attic for storage. I must admit I'm not sure where my extra drives are.

The most popular joystick was the Arcade, which I never had fail on me, unlike others. Buy I also have these crappy Atari 2600 joysticks and they keep working too. I guess I have a gentle touch.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Hmmm
by zima on Wed 20th Jun 2012 10:43 in reply to "RE[5]: Hmmm"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

an extra floppy drive is an logical assumption

Not really. Each Amiga had a floppy drive already built in, which worked perfectly fine. And most of their users were very price-concious, often kids.
Similar ~social dynamics of Amigans can be seen with quite poor uptake of A1200 or "big" Amigas - yes, they were better, but to most not worth it, not when vast libraries of software worked fine with "plain" models; very limited funds could go elsewhere.

Sure, an extra drive afforded some convenience now and then - but games, if multi-floppy, were mostly structured to be "linearly" sectioned onto disks (plus you yourself pointed out recently that RPGs had small uptake).

Try using an Amiga without an extra drive, you spend more time swapping disks than using it

That is an unfounded hyperbole. I did use an Amiga without an extra drive, as did virtually all around (as I said, I've never even seen one). And it was still great (at least large part of games, maybe most, being single-floppy, anyway)

Perhaps these extra drives easily got lost when people moved their Amiga's in to the attic for storage.

And that is a very convenient conjecture, indeed - almost all those floppy drives just lost like that...
But at the least, memory expansions definitely wouldn't share their fate - and they're also virtually absent from auction sites, while you implied their wide, and comparable to disk drives, uptake.

Edited 2012-06-20 10:52 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Hmmm
by Sauron on Wed 20th Jun 2012 10:53 in reply to "RE[4]: Hmmm"
Sauron Member since:
2005-08-02

What you on about? I knew a LOT of people with Amiga's back in the day and every one of them had a extra external floppy drive, me included! I still use Amiga's now and have hard drives fitted, but I still have external floppy's.

And most importantly, when you look at auction sites today, Amiga sets including external disk drives or memory expansions are much rarer than "plain" configs..

You don't see Amiga's sold with external floppy drives because they fetch more when sold separate, same as accelerators, genlocks, squirrel SCSI interfaces and anything else hardware based! Your arguing over something you obviously know nothing about!

And one didn't and doesn't use a external floppy to copy shop bought games, (although you could/can with a cyclone lead between your Amiga and external floppy). Quite a few games required a blank floppy disk to use as a save game disk and a extra drive removed the hassle of disk swaps all the time, plus productivity software was/is much more usable with a external floppy and is much easier to make backups of said software. (Copying a disk with just the internal drive if you didn't have a memory expansion was slow and painful)!
Maybe a few got rid of there previous setup, but you'd be surprised how many didn't! I didn't either and still have my Atari 600XL and 800XL and all peripherals and software with them, (not been used for a while though).

Oh! And this is not a personal anecdote either! ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Hmmm
by zima on Wed 20th Jun 2012 11:09 in reply to "RE[5]: Hmmm"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Maybe in the UK - Amiga also had a very long life as a budget machine in less affluent places (but, yeah, let's just extrapolate local bubbles without 2nd thought; obviously those who wonder about wider picture, plus point out what can be seen in surplus channels, "argue" about something they know nothing about). And...

You don't see Amiga's sold with external floppy drives because they fetch more when sold separate [...] Your arguing over something you obviously know nothing about!

...doesn't address why those drives are comparably rare (that could be a good reason why something always fetches quite high prices), either way.

And one didn't and doesn't use a external floppy to copy shop bought games

I very specifically wrote "personal anecdotes only go so far ...might be also a difference between places, how one just got copied games at ~shops here" - I've never even seen an original Amiga game, ever.
~Shops sold "pirated" games - but, really, the copyright didn't even apply to software until 1994 or so (and afterwards, the enforcement was lax for a few years)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: Hmmm
by Laurence on Wed 20th Jun 2012 12:33 in reply to "RE[4]: Hmmm"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

As I pointed out, personal anecdotes only go so far ...might be also a difference between places, how one just got copied games at ~shops here, and the usually very economically unattractive add-ons (while those with Amigas had them specifically because they were inexpensive).

But Amigas being used mostly for games is a fairly reliable info. And most importantly, when you look at auction sites today, Amiga sets including external disk drives or memory expansions are much rarer than "plain" configs...

PS. And when getting Amiga, one typically got rid of C64 set - also to aid in Amiga purchase. Plus the joysticks of old days seemed to have relatively short lifespans... (I did prevail with only one set, but mostly thanks to my repair abilities which first manifested themselves like that)


I don't think eBay is a reliable source for statistics because, on the whole, computers fetch more when broken down and sold as parts rather than sold as a whole. Thus it's not beyond reason that most Amiga's are sold without attachments so the attachments can be sold separately - thus maximizing the potential for profit.

That all said, you're observations might still be accurate - I just wouldn't cite ebay as evidence.

From a personal perspective, most of the people I know jumped from C64 to Win3.x compatable PC (oh the shame) - so I don't even have much in the way of anecdotal evidence ;)

[edit]

I think the joystick life space (or lack of) can be credited to those highly addictive sporting games (eg Olympics) where the controls consisted of jamming the joystick from side to side as rapidly as physically possible!

Edited 2012-06-20 12:42 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Hmmm
by zima on Wed 20th Jun 2012 13:04 in reply to "RE[5]: Hmmm"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

That's also with them available separately - I just glanced on my local "ebay" and there are only three drives, four memory expansions, for 30+ Amigas (2 expanded, none with 2nd drive). Why such large discrepancies? (OK, we can presume than in more affluent places this was perhaps half, but the implied ~all? ...and even if, the less affluent places offset this by themselves)

But yeah, hard to tell anything about many such aspects of the past. I can say that Amiga lived here much longer - PCs are a thing of Win98 and Celerons, onwards.
And also that I was never into games meant for computer's satisfaction ;) (but seriously, many inexpensive joysticks were just fragile; and perhaps the concept was flawed - joypads are a marked improvement, me thinks; perhaps they even make those old games better, under emus)

Edited 2012-06-20 13:05 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[6]: Hmmm
by MOS6510 on Wed 20th Jun 2012 13:57 in reply to "RE[5]: Hmmm"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Thus it's not beyond reason that most Amiga's are sold without attachments so the attachments can be sold separately - thus maximizing the potential for profit.


Greedy bastards.


From a personal perspective, most of the people I know jumped from C64 to Win3.x compatable PC (oh the shame)


Traitors!!!


I think the joystick life space (or lack of) can be credited to those highly addictive sporting games (eg Olympics) where the controls consisted of jamming the joystick from side to side as rapidly as physically possible!


Morons.

Well, that's enough large groups of people I have just insulted.

Reply Parent Score: 2