Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 23rd Jun 2012 17:05 UTC
Windows Two links to Marco Arment within a few days? Well, if you make good points: "Many Windows developers were upset that iOS development had to be done on a Mac, but it didn't hurt Apple: the most important developers for iOS apps were already using Macs. But the success of Windows 8 and Windows Phone in the consumer space requires many of those consumer-product developers, now entrenched in the Apple ecosystem, to care so much about Windows development that they want to use Windows to develop for it. How likely is that?" As usual a bit too Apple-centric (he implies - as explicit as possible while still being implicit - that only iOS developers can create great applications), but his point still stands. Judging by the abysmal quality of Microsoft's own Metro applications (Mail, Video, Music, People, IE10, etc.), even Microsoft doesn't know how to create great Metro applications.
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EvilMonkeySlayer
Member since:
2010-04-08

Urgh, I hate silly long quotathons.

Java IDE's: That's personal preference. The IDE has now reached a point where it's mostly just peoples personal preferences to which they prefer using. I'd compare it to MS Office, like ms office 2000 reached a good enough point of features people actually use most IDE's have now reached a point of good enough for features devs actually use.

I agree, MS tools are very cool. But Android dev is not hard nor is it some kind of sumerian ziggurat of findviewbyid's.

Erm, yes.. you can do animation in XML on android.

Who uses any visual designer? Everyone uses it to quickly see how it looks then goes back to the XML or the Java.

MS managed to get success with the Xbox 360 because Sony royally messed up with the PS3. And i'd remind you that Nintendo were the victor of this generation of consoles, not MS. Ultimately in terms of sales the 360 and PS3 are now worldwide about equal in parity. So i'd hardly describe that as "dominating the field".

You can call it what you like, the simple reality is that MS have lost the phone market. They might be able to buy themselves some market share but it's simply unsustainable, they can only spend so many billions before the shareholders begin questioning the reasoning. MS' primary phone provider is a dying company which just shed 10,000 jobs. (pretty sad, as Nokia were once real innovators)

As to the tablet market, right now the only successful tablet is made by Apple. From every single news source that has been mentioned the pricing of Windows tablets will be above the iPad, that's commercial suicide. I'm personally holding a wait and see approach about the next Android and Windows 8 tablets. I wouldn't be so closed minded as to outright dismiss something without trying it. (Android 4 on tablets is okay at the moment)

Because there is genuine revenue coming out of the Windows Phone marketplace. The Android market is a complete and utter failure. No one really gets money off of it. Its just a means to an end, growing the user base.


Really? A complete and utter failure? Do you really want to say that? That is just silly.
I don't doubt that there are a few small developers making money on WP7, but I seriously doubt there is anything on the same level as the money that's being made on IOS and Android. The numbers of users simply prevents that.

Yep, Android and IOS are good enough. And windows phone isn't good enough nor a game changer like the iPhone was. Times change every so often and Windows Phone isn't it.


Look at the type of games on games consoles and on the pc.

Now look at games on mobile phones and tablets, you can't simply go from console dev to mobile dev and expect the same sales or results with the same kind of games. You have to create games for the platform. Now again, if you're a dev creating games you will look at what mobile platforms have the biggest share and focus on them first. The dominant mobile platforms use OpenGL, that's the reality. The devs will go where the money is, which is OpenGL.

People simply aren't buying Windows Phone, therefore the devs won't write games for it because the initial investment is high with low probability of a return on your investment. Some games companies may be sources of evil, but they're run by businesses who will look at the numbers.

You can hark on all you like about DirectX, but the mobile devs are writing for OpenGL and it's not going to change anytime soon. It's the Angry Birds syndrome, the market isn't there therefore the devs won't write or port the games because the cost of porting is too great with little return. MS would be very smart to have an implementation of OpenGL in WP8 that way they'd get more cross platform games on it.

By the way, DirectX is the dominant platform on windows, the xbox 360 and windows mobile.

Everything else, whether it be the Wii (the dominant games console) or Android (the dominant mobile platform) it's OpenGL.

No serious devs are going to invest serious money into writing games for a single mobile platform that has a couple of percent of the market. Nobody.

And thank you for reiterating my point about middleware, Unreal like Unity will be one of the ways to get games cross platform on mobile. Side stepping the whole OpenGL/Direct3D malarky.

I'm not writing off Windows Phone, I'm saying it's lost unless MS do something truly radical like Apple did with the iPhone. Which right now i'm not seeing anything.

Good on the windows phone emulator! Good show!


Again, stop being so blindly pro-MS. It's really clouding your vision to the current realities. I'd quite like to see a three horse mobile race, but right now it's Android and IOS that are dominating. MS is going up against Google and Apple which haven't really slipped up much. MS are going against them with a platform that's okay at best and so-so at worst.

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