Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 29th Jun 2012 22:55 UTC
OSNews, Generic OSes "Whenever there is a conversation about the future of computing, is discussion inevitably turns to the notion of a 'File'. After all, most tablets and phones don't show the user anything that resembles a file, only Apps that contain their own content, tucked away inside their own opaque storage structure. This is wrong. Files are abstraction layers around content that are necessary for interoperability. Without the notion of a File or other similar shared content abstraction, the ability to use different applications with the same information grinds to a halt, which hampers innovation and user experience." Aside from the fact that a file manager for Android is just a click away, and aside from the fact that Android's share menu addresses many of these concerns, his point still stands: files are not an outdated, archaic concept. One of my biggest gripes with iOS is just how user-hostile the operating system it when it comes to getting stuff - whatever stuff - to and from the device.
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Stupid, stupid
by Nelson on Sat 30th Jun 2012 01:24 UTC
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

Users largely don't give a rats ass what directory something is stored in. They don't care the name of the file, the extension, the metadata associated with it. They don't care. They just don't.

Now, there's a lot of things people don't care about, but still should take the time to figure out. Files are most definitely not one of them.

In the end, the more transparent this is to the user the better. The less searching a user has to do the better. I mean, we largely do an end run around this already with OS wide search.

Users care about movies, pictures, music, their social updates, their news, their friends.

They don't care that pictures come from iCloud, or Facebook, or the Pictures folder, or their SDCard. They just care about viewing their pictures.

Users don't care about a status update coming from Twitter, or Facebook, or Google+ (Lol, okay, no one uses that, but still..). They care about what their friends are using.

This myopic behavior in computing needs to stop. The future of computing is around a seamless integration and uniform presentation of all the information in a users life.

Files, Directories, Filesystems are all an impediment to this grand idea.

TL;DR. Who the fuck cares

Reply Score: 1

RE: Stupid, stupid
by tupp on Sat 30th Jun 2012 01:46 in reply to "Stupid, stupid"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

Users largely don't give a rats ass what directory something is stored in. They don't care the name of the file, the extension, the metadata associated with it. They don't care. They just don't.

Perhaps that is generally true, but as I have stated elsewhere in this thread, whether the user cares or not has no bearing on whether or not they should be able to discern the difference between a file and the hole in their ass.

Also, I guarantee that when an utterly ignorant user will suddenly become keenly interested in files and directories, at the moment that he/she is desperately trying to find the presentation or term paper that was misplaced on the drive (for whatever reason).


Now, there's a lot of things people don't care about, but still should take the time to figure out. Files are most definitely not one of them.

Again, whether or not that is true has no bearing on whether or not they should take five minutes to learn the meaning of a file and a directory.


In the end, the more transparent this is to the user the better.

Sure. If one wants everyone to be utterly helpless and ignorant.


They don't care that pictures come from iCloud, or Facebook, or the Pictures folder, or their SDCard. They just care about viewing their pictures. Users don't care about a status update coming from Twitter, or Facebook, or Google+ (Lol, okay, no one uses that, but still..). They care about what their friends are using.

It really doesn't help to repeat what users care about. Yes. Many users care about all the things that you say, but they also suddenly care about finding and securing their files when something goes wrong.

Regardless, they should be taught the basics in five minutes.


The future of computing is around a seamless integration and uniform presentation of all the information in a users life.

Everyone has a right to their opinion.


Files, Directories, Filesystems are all an impediment to this grand idea.

No. Files, directories and filesystems are fundamental to such an idea. Without these items, you can't have "seamless integration" nor "uniform presentation."


TL;DR. Who the fuck cares

Way to go!

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Stupid, stupid
by Nelson on Sat 30th Jun 2012 01:57 in reply to "RE: Stupid, stupid"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


Perhaps that is generally true, but as I have stated elsewhere in this thread, whether the user cares or not has no bearing on whether or not they should be able to discern the difference between a file and the hole in their ass.

Also, I guarantee that when an utterly ignorant user will suddenly become keenly interested in files and directories, at the moment that he/she is desperately trying to find the presentation or term paper that was misplaced on the drive (for whatever reason).


Then it is the job of the OS to not misplace it. Find it. Surface it to the user. We shouldn't be punting the failures of UX design to the user.


Again, whether or not that is true has no bearing on whether or not they should take five minutes to learn the meaning of a file and a directory.


Of course it does. People value their time. Just because you keep saying "five minutes" over and over does not make it right. If, like you said, a file is lost somewhere on the system, it often can take more than five minutes to find it.

User frustration should not be a selling point. Why? Things can be so much easier.


Sure. If one wants everyone to be utterly helpless and ignorant.


I'm sure you're helpless and ignorant about a lot of things in life. This holier than thou attitude you've taken is a fucking bullshit.

People don't value productivity because they can't wrap their heads around something. They value it because they shouldn't have to.


It really doesn't help to repeat what users care about. Yes. Many users care about all the things that you say, but they also suddenly care about finding and securing their files when something goes wrong.


Things shouldn't go wrong. Files should be secure. The user shouldn't concern themselves with the implementation details of things. Its archaic and wrong.


No. Files, directories and filesystems are fundamental to such an idea. Without these items, you can't have "seamless integration" nor "uniform presentation."


They can exist, the user doesn't need to know about them. Users don't need to know the inner workings of their car to get to work. That would make life harder.


Way to go!


You've contributed nothing to the discussion, except rehashing the same (wrong) bullshit you've said to other people in this thread. I'm positive that I can read, so spare me.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: Stupid, stupid
by UltraZelda64 on Sat 30th Jun 2012 05:14 in reply to "Stupid, stupid"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

You have described the dumbest of the dumbasses when it comes to computer users. It is exactly those people you are describing who should be denied access to a computer until they are willing to LEARN a thing or two and quit considering their computer to be no more complicated than a fucking rock. Even setting up a landline telephone or toaster and using it requires just a bit of knowledge to use... why should a computer be any different?

Just as people are denied the ability to drive a car until they have reached an age that they can learn the basics of driving, and prove that they at least know the rules before given the legal right to drive by themselves. Of course, these people often drive like inconsiderate assholes and break all the laws anyway, but at least they were taught and (hopefully) understand the basics of driving.

Reply Parent Score: 8

v RE[2]: Stupid, stupid
by Nelson on Sat 30th Jun 2012 06:30 in reply to "RE: Stupid, stupid"
RE: Stupid, stupid
by phoudoin on Sat 30th Jun 2012 16:37 in reply to "Stupid, stupid"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

Users care about movies, pictures, music, their social updates, their news, their friends.


Not true.
You're asserting that users are all the same. They're not. In fact, for every user there is theorically one needs set.

In my case, as a computing devices user whose job is to develop programs for computing devices, I *do* care about others stuffs than movies, pictures, music, social updates, news or friends. While I may care about those, I often care *more* about data format and organisation.

And so far, file abstraction is the minimum feature I'll expect. If it sports also indexed meta-data, hierarchy, crypting, auto versioning of data, I care even more.

Now, maybe *most* users don't care about files, but not all. Every user don't care that much about what other users could care, except when it could reduce the features set they needs.

So, hide my files as much as you want, I won't care that much until 1) they're just hidden anymore but out of my control or 2) I've no means anymore to see and use them the way *I like*, not the way someone else think (or want, for its own reason, not mine) they should.

My data. My way, my choice.
Or say bye-bye to my money.

And each time someone says that the ultra-user-friendly devices makers knowns better than me, I reply: since when I'm a kid again and these makers are my parents!?

Edited 2012-06-30 16:43 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4