Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 3rd Jul 2012 19:15 UTC, submitted by tupp
Legal In the Used Soft GmbH v. Oracle International Corp. case, the Court of Justice of the EU ruled today that it is okay to resell software, regardless of clauses in the software license. This is a pretty big deal, and further affirms that a software license is not necessarily binding. Great news for European consumers.
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RE[4]: Great
by WorknMan on Wed 4th Jul 2012 02:14 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Great"
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

Why would you bother with buying and reselling if you can just download the copy from torents for free and much faster? That wouldn't be any less legal.


Two reasons:

If selling used software licenses was legal, I wouldn't have to worry about the copyright police busting me on torrent sites, nor would I have to worry about if the copy is clean

Plus, I could sell copies to multiple people and possibly make some money, while still getting to use the software.

If the software has any kind of copy protection the same protection can be used to make sure you're not using your copy after you've sold the license.


Right, which is exactly my point. Right now, if I try and sell used software on Ebay (in the US), the auction would probably get removed quickly. But if it were legal, the only way to ensure that this sort of thing wouldn't happen is to put DRM/copy-protection into everything. Hell, even $10 shareware apps would have product activation.

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[5]: Great
by WereCatf on Wed 4th Jul 2012 02:33 in reply to "RE[4]: Great"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Two reasons:

If selling used software licenses was legal, I wouldn't have to worry about the copyright police busting me on torrent sites, nor would I have to worry about if the copy is clean

Plus, I could sell copies to multiple people and possibly make some money, while still getting to use the software.


Wow, you're either really hard trying to twist this ruling, you're out to spread FUD or you're just etremely bad at understanding things!

Being allowed to sell the software you bought has nothing to do with copyright laws: if you're in breach of copyright law then you're STILL IN BREACH OF THE COPYRIGHT LAW. You do not gain ownership of the copyrights to the software or its assets! Also, this ruling means you are allowed to sell the software as in transferring the ownership of the specific copy you yourself bought to someone else: it does not mean you can just start selling copies of it. You are criminally liable for damages and fraud if you do that or keep on using the software after you've sold it away.

There has been a similar ruling here in Finland already about 10 years ago, so yes, I do actually know what I am talking about and you clearly do not. I really, really suggest you go brush up on your understanding of copyright and marketing laws.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[6]: Great
by Alfman on Wed 4th Jul 2012 03:01 in reply to "RE[5]: Great"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

WereCatf,


I really don't understand the loophole he's trying to describe either... it seems to be a pretty clear cut case of copyright violation to me. It's strange to suggest that transferring software would somehow bust copyrights.

I do disagree with one of your earlier posts though. I think it is wrong (though not necessarily illegal) for publishers to deny fair use rights using DRM. What's the point in having rights if we're not able to practice them?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: Great
by Alfman on Wed 4th Jul 2012 02:52 in reply to "RE[4]: Great"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

WorknMan,

"If selling used software licenses was legal, I wouldn't have to worry about the copyright police busting me on torrent sites, nor would I have to worry about if the copy is clean"

I'm having trouble making sense of that. Your selling the software doesn't duplicate the license. You are required to hand over both the media and the license/keys/serial number/etc. If you keep anything after you've sold it, then your in violation of copyright. There's no loophole.

In any copyright case there must be an investigation as to who has legal possession of a license. Assuming the software was resold with proper sales documentation, then I don't really see the problem myself, the last recipient would have the documentation, receipt and transactions to prove possession.

Maybe your point is that tracking a software license is next to impossible if it doesn't include a serial number. True, but the problem still exists without involving any resale.

Maybe your point is that license ownership be falsified such that more than one person appears to be in possession of the serial number. True, but again the problem still exists without involving any resale.


Can you illustrate a specific example where the resale of software causes a copyright problem that's not otherwise a problem without resale?

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: Great
by WorknMan on Wed 4th Jul 2012 03:08 in reply to "RE[5]: Great"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Can you illustrate a specific example where the resale of software causes a copyright problem that's not otherwise a problem without resale?


Sure. As it stands now, I could buy a piece of software for $100, and sell to 20 different people for $10, and make myself a nice little $100 profit, while still being able to use the software. However, since selling used software is currently illegal in most places, I am limited as to where I can advertise it, plus if I am caught, I might end up with guys in black suits and ties knocking on my front door, wanting to ask me a few questions.

However, in the case where it was legal, I would be freely allowed to put ads up on Craigslist, Ebay, or anywhere else I wanted. When such an ad or auction goes up, nobody really knows if this is the first ttime I'm selling the license or the hundreth.

While its true that I could get busted if I got greedy and tried to sell the same license to a bunch of people and then somebody reported me, I could at least sell every piece of software I ever bought while keeping a backup for my own use, and get a little bit of my money back. Sure, while it's technically copyright violation, that hasn't exactly stopped people from pirating in the past, nor from buying software that they knew was illegal.

And why wouldn't I just torrent it in the first place? I already answered that question a post or two ago ;) If you really expect to be allowed to sell used software while having no DRM whatsoever, yeah.... good luck with that ;)

Edited 2012-07-04 03:11 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[5]: Great
by Soulbender on Wed 4th Jul 2012 03:52 in reply to "RE[4]: Great"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

If selling used software licenses was legal


It is legal. Just because big business says you can't doesn't mean you're not allowed to. Things you put in a EULA does not magically become valid contract clauses. Contract law exist for a reason.

Plus, I could sell copies to multiple people and possibly make some money, while still getting to use the software.


Dude, that's an entire different thing. Making copies and selling those is plain old copyright infringement.

What we are talking about is selling the copy you rightfully own to someone else and transfer the ownership.
Not being allowed to sell old software is as absurd as not being allowed to sell your old car.

Right now, if I try and sell used software on Ebay (in the US), the auction would probably get removed quickly.


Really? There are no old games in original packaging for sale on Ebay?

Reply Parent Score: 5