Linked by nej_simon on Wed 4th Jul 2012 22:05 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless The only MeeGo device to ever be released, the Nokia N9, has been updated to MeeGo/Harmattan 1.3. Among the improvements are improved performance, updated applications, improved NFC support, improved copy/paste, and more. In other news, the team behind MeeGo and Maemo is now leaving Nokia, probably making this the last update for the N9.
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RE[2]: End of a dream
by cdude on Thu 5th Jul 2012 10:36 UTC in reply to "RE: End of a dream"
cdude
Member since:
2008-09-21

Nokia wasn't healthy for a good few years already, and some people predicted the downfall ...


It was the market-leader bigger then it's 2 closed competitors together(!), when Elop took over. Nokia was generating healthy profits and the profits where growing!

Now, a bit more then a year later, Nokia is down to its all time low, rated junk, generates billion $ loses, is down to way below 10% marketshare and is in deep cash problems.

How it all happens fairly rapidly, recently, is mostly an unravelling of long-present downward spiral


No, it is a classic management failure. In our history there never ever was a company that lost so fast so much. No single company across ALL industries (not only mobile or tech) ever died that fast. This is a all-time world-record. You cannot reach that with doing nothing. You need to apply and execute a series of fatal actions to make that active happen.

And about those layoffs, largely also in Nokia manufacturing plants ...we decided we don't want to pay for something made in ~Western fabs, not more than for toys made in East Asia.


Its not like they only moved there factories or development somewhere else. They did not. They closed factories, research and development WITHOUT any replacement.

Maybe its correct that today to continue to compete you need to produce in Asia like Apple does and like, btw, Nokia did with the Lumia too. The N9 was made in Finnland and sold, compared with the Lumia, which was made in cheap factories in Asia (resulting in the famous and ueber-expensive Lumia 900 bug), with profit for Nokia.

But they did not. They stopped research and development! As WinPhone reseller you may not need research and development but then you will stay a reseller and not more. That is what Nokia just did. They downgraded themself from the mobile market-leader to a mass-product (noone likes to buy) reseller in a little over a year under Elop's management!

Edited 2012-07-05 10:40 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[3]: End of a dream
by zima on Thu 5th Jul 2012 11:50 in reply to "RE[2]: End of a dream"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

It was the market-leader bigger then it's 2 closed competitors together(!), when Elop took over. Nokia was generating healthy profits and the profits where growing!

It was the "market leader" in number of shipped units... not that good with profit margins for quite some time, also when taking into account specific device segments of course (because it obviously doesn't make sense to compare S30 and iOS devices); insisting to look at some slice of a time period when profits were growing still didn't make their absolute value look good.

And a "market leader" in funds spent on R&D (and no, excluding the network division - looking only at consumer OS, handsets, services, and such), with horrible proportions of that amount to returns; suggesting highly dysfunctional structure that was around for a long time before Elop.

But yeah, blame Canada ;) - or the Canadian, in this case... But seriously, it's not that Elop didn't make gross errors (for one, isn't "Eloped" the new & stronger variant of Osbourne effect?) or even pursued debatable goals (still, remember he would be specifically brought in to do them by the board, largest shareholders), and it's not that Nokia wasn't a major player (still is) - but this B&W narrative, as if Nokia wasn't in deep trouble prior to him, is getting old.
It was a long running management failure, at many levels (we know of few Nokia divisions essentially infighting each other, you think lowly employees weren't involved in pushing their pet darling to the detriment of other projects?)

(BTW those who predicted the downfall for a long time - there's for example Eldar Murtazin from mobile-review.com ...and notice, on the main page, that he doesn't have a problem with also calling Elop a traitor in his #176 EN editorial; didn't have a problem to praise some device from Nokia if it deserved it)

Its not like they only moved there factories or development somewhere else. They did not. They closed factories, research and development WITHOUT any replacement.

Right, as if Nokia didn't have their own activities in China... (that includes not only their own manufacturing - which can't be just moved so fast, so of course they'll depend on 3rd parties - but also quite sizeable, quite new R&D center - one which, IIRC, undergoes expansion recently)

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: End of a dream
by cdude on Thu 5th Jul 2012 13:26 in reply to "RE[3]: End of a dream"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

It was the "market leader" in number of shipped units... not that good with profit margins


When you compare to Apple then even Microsoft is not good in profit margins.

Fact is Nokia made hundred millions of profit every single quarter, year after year. Then Elop took over and a year later they make billions of lose first time in company history. The situation is that worse that nobody believes Nokia can recover. They are rated junk now and have serious cash-problems.

insisting to look at some slice of a time period when profits were growing still didn't make their absolute value look good.


Read again. They made huge profits year by year for more then a decade. Elop took over and within months its billions of lose.

Now the all in one question: How is that better then your unfunded personal "does not look good" impression?

And a "market leader" in funds spent on R&D (and no, excluding the network division - looking only at consumer OS, handsets, services, and such), with horrible proportions of that amount to returns;


Nokia invested 50 billion in research. That gave them patents which are estimated at 10 billion *AND* successful products that made them the market-leader *AND* billions of dollars of profit resulting from that.

Or do you compare with Apple again? :-) If you do, not forget that it is Apple who pays Nokia 600 million every year cause of that Nokia patent-tressure. And not forget that Nokia was selling more then Apple and Samsung together when Elop took over. Its just now, a year later, that Nokia is a WinPhone-Zombie selling in 4 months what Android sells on 2 days. It is now, a year later, that Nokia lost more then 90% of its value in one year only!!!

suggesting highly dysfunctional structure that was around for a long time before Elop.


Alright. That is why Nokia was number #1 so long till Elop took over?

it's not that Elop didn't make gross errors


Not alone, that is correct. All those who where in charge, BOD and management, that supported the CEO where making the errors together. But at the end its the CEO which is responsible. He gets the millions if everything wents well and is the one to blame when it doesn't. For Nokia it does not went well or do you like to argue against that?

(for one, isn't "Eloped" the new & stronger variant of Osbourne effect?)


No. The Elop-effect is if you combine the Osborn and the Ratner effect at the same time. Elop was the first one testing the fatal effect with the burning memo and killing Nokia within a world record time.

it's not that Nokia wasn't a major player (still is) - but this B&W narrative, as if Nokia wasn't in deep trouble prior to him, is getting old.


You have to differ. Nokia may had the problem that there leadership was in danger. Others like Apple and Samsung where growing faster and hence the distance shrink. But they did not had the problem to fight to survive! They did not had to fire 1/5 employees, sell assets like patents and divisions and they where not in danger to turn from a global player into a bankrupted emergency case. There is a huge difference between those definitions of "problems". Elop indeed is responsible that Nokia is official rated JUNK now.

we know of few Nokia divisions essentially infighting each other, you think lowly employees weren't involved in pushing their pet darling to the detriment of other projects?


I tell you a secret. Its like that in every larger cooperation. Just read those stack-management article that was on osNews some days ago and keep in mind that inside Nokia things where not as bad like they are inside of e.g. Microsoft and yet the first one dies and the second survives.

(BTW those who predicted the downfall for a long time - there's for example Eldar Murtazin from mobile-review.com ...and notice, on the main page, that he doesn't have a problem with also calling Elop a traitor in his #176 EN editorial; didn't have a problem to praise some device from Nokia if it deserved it)


You need again to differ. Everybody saw that Nokia is loosing ground. That they may in danger to lose there leadership-position some day. But no one predicted that Nokia is going to die in just 1-2 years!

Just look how the forecasts for Nokia where before Elop took over. The common believe was that Nokia may lose 5% marketshare till 2013, not that they are dead that time!

Right, as if Nokia didn't have their own activities in China...


I think you mean Vietnam? That is not where Lumias are manufactored. Nokia does not use there own factories for Lumia. I am not aware of Nokia factories in China but maybe I am mistaken. In nay case that's not where the Lumias are produced. First time in Nokia history Nokia does not use its own factories for its products. Rumors are that it allows Microsoft to easily take over when Nokia aborts Lumia...

also quite sizeable, quite new R&D center - one which, IIRC, undergoes expansion recently)


A new Nokia R&D in china? Never ever. Not to my knowledge. I doubt that and think you maybe confuse Nokia with something else. Please give sources.

Edited 2012-07-05 13:40 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5