Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 4th Jul 2012 23:08 UTC
Google Apparently, this is a major victory of the patent system. This, this right here, this is what the patent system has come to. This is the destructive effect it's having on this once beautiful industry. Thanks to trolls like Apple and Microsoft, basic, elemental functionality is being removed from devices people already own.
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lilsim89
Member since:
2009-11-30

The patent system is old, but so is the U.S. Constitution. It gets reinterpreted all the time.

I do understand where you're coming from, but it simply isn't the capitalistic way of doing things. Over time, companies who devote the time, money, effort, and put the consumer first make the most money. (Save for a few sectors... Oil, for instance.) It isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than socialism or communism. By point:

1.) Software Engineers (in the United States) are highly sought-after and make six figures with a few years of experience. Not many jobs with a BS have that privilege.

2.) You're wrong about the Model T. Henry Ford's patents have expired. There were over 150. Those designs lawfully belong to the world. Thanks for making my argument for me.

3.) Apple's behavior doesn't need changing. They are among the best companies in the world, by anyone's measure. They won't stand for other companies sleeping on the job, then making the best copy cat to profit from. Wan't a great product? Put in the effort.

Reply Parent Score: 0

Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

Did Apple made a great effort when they copied Xerox's ideas?

Xerox should have sued them into oblivion.

Reply Parent Score: 3

MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Xerox allowed Apple to use their technology. Xerox engineers were working at Apple to make this work.

Reply Parent Score: 2

clasqm Member since:
2010-09-23

Go read the actual history of what happened there. Apple BOUGHT those ideas from Xerox. Paid for them with Apple shares. Xerox though it was a good idea because Apple was about to go public.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Beta Member since:
2005-07-06

[q]The patent system is old, but so is the U.S. Constitution. It gets reinterpreted all the time.

Patents go back to the 14th century… slightly older than the US constitution ;) Yet they’ve only seen rampant abuse in the last 150 years :<

Reply Parent Score: 2

phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

I do understand where you're coming from, but it simply isn't the capitalistic way of doing things. Over time, companies who devote the time, money, effort, and put the consumer first make the most money. (Save for a few sectors... Oil, for instance.) It isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than socialism or communism.


The point is not if it's better than something worth (!), but that the patent system alone it's less better that it used to be.
The fact that it could be way more broken is not an argument for not fixing it now. In fact, it's event an argument for fixing it as soon as possible.

1.) Software Engineers (in the United States) are highly sought-after and make six figures with a few years of experience. Not many jobs with a BS have that privilege.


It's clearly not the case worldwide.

2.) You're wrong about the Model T. Henry Ford's patents have expired. There were over 150. Those designs lawfully belong to the world. Thanks for making my argument for me.


*Before* they expired, every car according to your argument would have been a copy cat of a Ford T, which will have made Ford the sole legitimate car maker until his patents expiration. That would have leaded to several decades during which car innovation would have been quite frozen due to lack of incentive for Ford, thanks for competitors blocked by patents.

3.) Apple's behavior doesn't need changing. They are among the best companies in the world, by anyone's measure.


By best, you mean richest, right?
Because you will find that several people don't share your *measure* about Apple.
I clearly don't.
But my measure is not always money, maybe this explain that.

Wan't a great product? Put in the effort.


So Apple devices's copy cats can't be great product, right?
Why fear them, then!? At worst, they make people who can't afford the great but expensive ones to have a fake Apple device, which could make others who can afford the original cost to buy it.

That's the fallacy about lost-sales. People buying an apparently less great product do it for a reason: either they agree about which one is greater but can't afford it (no sale lost here, as it' entirely due to your product price, nothing else) or they disagree about which one is the greatest and find what you call a copy cat product, well, actually greater.
Which will invalidate your assertion that a) only effort can bring a great product or b) copy an already great product is not that effortless (often called improving, but hey, what's in a name).

If Apple fear about Android devices, it's not because they think they're bad products made without much effort copying Apple ones. It's because they think these devices are great too if not greater than theirs own, which hurt its market (= expensive great products).
They could reduce the price to substain sales. Which they did for the iPad families. They also could improve their own device to stay ahead of competition. Which they don't.

Want steady sales of a once great product? Put in the effort to make the greatest product.
Works both way.

Edited 2012-07-05 15:32 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

phoudoin,

"It's clearly not the case worldwide."

Six figure SE salaries aren't easy to come by in the US either. I think software engineering salaries are more highly skewed than other professions. Some are doing extremely well, but others not so much. According to glassdoor.com, the US median is $62k. The New York City median is listed at $87k. That's still pretty good, but I think we're entering an economy where established employees are maintaining their high wages at the expense of new entrants who struggle to land a good job. We've been hit by some severe layoffs, hiring freezes and consolidations, all the while universities are pumping out a hundred thousand new grads each year - there just aren't enough jobs to keep up.

Sorry about the OT rant, I've just been frustrated with my job search is all. If anyone has connections to a 6 figure SE job, I'd love to be given the chance to prove my worth.

Reply Parent Score: 2

lilsim89 Member since:
2009-11-30

The fact that it could be way more broken is not an argument for not fixing it now.

That's like saying keep changing your product until there are no pros and cons, just pros. Realistically, there's no such thing as perfect. You get better and make decisions based on whether it brings more to the table than it takes away.

Every car according to your argument would have been a copy cat of a Ford T, which will have made Ford the sole legitimate car maker until his patents expiration. That would have leaded to several decades during which car innovation would have been quite frozen due to lack of incentive for Ford.

Wrong, Chevy licensed some of those patents, and incorporated their own designs and technology and OVERTOOK Ford after 10 years! Why is this point not coming across to anyone!!

http://hughwilliamson.hubpages.com/hub/Ford-vs-Chevrolet-A-Century-...

By best, you mean richest, right?


Wrong. People buy Apple products for a reason. They work and look amazing. Profits are a product of that. Apple is the most valuable brand in the world, ranked by Forbes. Innovates the most, ranked by BusinessWeek. And last but not least:

"The American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI) released its latest report on Tuesday, revealing customer satisfaction ratings for cellphone manufacturers and wireless carriers. The survey says cellphone users are most satisfied with Apple’s line of iPhones."

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/05/its-official-cell-phone-user...

Reply Parent Score: 0

shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

Quote
1.) Software Engineers (in the United States) are highly sought-after and make six figures with a few years of experience. Not many jobs with a BS have that privilege.

Yeah right up to the time their job is shipped overseas. The beancounters see these well paid techies and boom, your job is gone.

Reply Parent Score: 3