Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 8th Jul 2012 17:54 UTC
Google Fantastic initiative by Google. Anna Peirano details: "Google is launching a new campaign called 'Legalize Love' with the intention of inspiring countries to legalize marriage for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people around the world. The 'Legalize Love' campaign officially launches in Poland and Singapore on Saturday, July 7th. Google intends to eventually expand the initiative to every country where the company has an office, and will focus on places with homophobic cultures, where anti-gay laws exist." As proud as I am of living in the first country to legalise same-sex marriage, it's easy to forget we only did so in 2000. Also, it's about time the large technology companies of the world started using their power, reach, and money to do good. Hopefully, this initiative will transcend company boundaries, uniting them behind a common, noble goal.
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RE[2]: A few thoughts
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 8th Jul 2012 23:10 UTC in reply to "RE: A few thoughts"
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

I agree on the position that it's the government's responsibility to register a union. What type of union it is and how it works, should not be the responsibility of the government.


This is how it works in The Netherlands. We have legal marriage, and ceremonial marriage.

The legal wedding is the only one that has legal meaning. It is performed by a government official, and has all the legal standing usually associated with marriage. Since the first article of our Constitution guarantees unconditional equality for all Dutch citizens, the legal marriage cannot exclude same-sex marriage.

The ceremonial wedding, which can be performed by a priest, rabbi, or whatever, has zero legal status. It has no legal meaning whatsoever. A couple which only holds a ceremonial wedding is not married as far as the state is concerned.

The end result is that religious couples usually do a quick legal wedding at city hall in the morning, only to hold a big ceremonial wedding at the church later that same day, with all the guests and egards. Couples who are not religious usually seek out a beautiful building or outdoor location, and 'rent' the government official, and turn the legal wedding into the big ordeal a wedding usually is. You can even do a quick legal wedding at city hall in the morning, and then a large non-religious ceremonial wedding at a beautiful location presided over by whomever.

The gives freedom to everybody, and ensures the clear separation between church and state - as it should be. This is 2012, this is no time for theocracies anymore.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: A few thoughts
by OMRebel on Mon 9th Jul 2012 15:34 in reply to "RE[2]: A few thoughts"
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

This is how it works in The Netherlands. We have legal marriage, and ceremonial marriage.


Why can't both be legally recognized? As a Christian, I believe that marriage is a union before God. When my wife and I got married, it was done so in my church with our pastor conducting the marriage service. I do not believe that right should be taken away from anyone, no matter how things are done in a different country.

Of course, you can always go to the Justice of the Peace in the US and get married in the office without having any type of ceremony if you wish.

To take away my right, as a Christian, in which the traditional wedding no longer holds any legally recognized meaning isn't extending my rights - but taking them away.

Having said all of that - I have zero problem with two people of the same sex getting married to each other. That is their choice, and it is NOT up to me to say they shouldn't be able to do so. What they chose to do has zero effect upon me or my marriage, and I wish them all of the happiness in the world.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: A few thoughts
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 9th Jul 2012 15:52 in reply to "RE[3]: A few thoughts"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

To take away my right, as a Christian, in which the traditional wedding no longer holds any legally recognized meaning isn't extending my rights - but taking them away.


As far as I know, this has always been that way in The Netherlands. In fact, I believe this is common in many European countries, and, like so many other civil things, is probably Napoleonic.

The problem with your concept is that because marriage entitles you to state benefits and rights, it must be performed by the state. We have a very, very clear separation between church and state, so the church performing rites or signing documents that give you state benefits and rights is wholly incompatible with out legal system, government structure, and so on.

UPDATE: Turns out it's indeed Napoleonic, but on top of that, the Protestant leader Calvin (deeply religious!), who has had a tremendous amount of influence on Dutch society, also stated that couples should marry before both the church AND the state:

"The Protestant pastor and theologian of Geneva John Calvin decreed that, in order for a couple to be considered married, they must be registered by the state in addition to a church ceremony.
In 1792, with the French Revolution, religious marriage ceremonies in France were made secondary to civil marriage. Religious ceremonies could still be performed, but only for couples who had already been married in a civil ceremony. Napoleon later spread this custom throughout most of Europe. In present-day France only civil marriage has legal validity. A religious ceremony may be performed after the civil union, but has no legal effect."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_marriage

Edited 2012-07-09 15:59 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2